Wyoming Pike with Kody Luckow

[00:00:01] Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast, a production of The Ugly Bug Fly Shop and Crazy Rainbow Fly

[00:00:09] Fishing.

[00:00:14] Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast.

[00:00:16] On today's episode we sit down with Cody Lucow, a fishing guide in the Casper area

[00:00:21] here that's guided for Crazy Rainbow and The Ugly Bug for a long time.

[00:00:26] Cody is also kind of a pioneer of a cool new fishery here within the state, Chasing

[00:00:32] Pike and exploring some shoulder species like walleye as well with a fly rod.

[00:00:41] We look forward to bringing that to you.

[00:00:44] Let's step away real quick from a word from our sponsors and then we'll get to the podcast.

[00:00:51] The Ugly Bug Podcast is proudly sponsored by Fly Oming.

[00:00:55] Wyoming rooted fly fishing apparel and accessories challenging the traditional mold designed

[00:00:59] by anglers or anglers.

[00:01:02] Thanks for joining us Cody.

[00:01:05] Today we're going to discuss a little alternative stuff, kind of a pike alternative species on

[00:01:13] a fly rod.

[00:01:15] Let's just start with like why would someone want to get into pike right?

[00:01:20] What's going to make a trout angler or a carp angler or whatever other odd species you're

[00:01:25] currently chasing?

[00:01:26] Why would you, you know, what's the intrigue with pike?

[00:01:29] I think just the hunt and the chase of having to cast, you know, hundreds and hundreds of

[00:01:34] times for maybe nothing or maybe a 40 to 50 inch pike or a 20 pound carp or something

[00:01:42] big, you know.

[00:01:44] Just different than trout.

[00:01:46] I think they're incredibly difficult but they reward you just enough here and there

[00:01:50] that it still makes it fun, right?

[00:01:52] Not impossible.

[00:01:53] Yeah, it's like golf.

[00:01:56] It sucks 90% of the time but the 10% is worth it.

[00:02:00] Yeah, awesome.

[00:02:02] How did you, is that kind of how you got interested in it was just something different?

[00:02:06] Yeah, yeah, you know doing 100 plus days on the reef all the time and on this system

[00:02:11] and fishing for trout.

[00:02:12] I just wanted something different and so, you know, probably six, seven years ago

[00:02:17] I was like I'm going to go figure these things out.

[00:02:20] It took me a long time to figure them out because they move so much.

[00:02:25] They're always not wanting to eat, you know.

[00:02:27] They eat once twice a week when it's cold and we have a lot of cold water.

[00:02:31] So it was just that chase that I really enjoyed.

[00:02:34] Yeah.

[00:02:35] So did you start with them chasing them by boat or were you mostly weight fishing

[00:02:39] them?

[00:02:40] Well, depending on how windy it was because my drift boat with a little three and a

[00:02:44] half horse didn't go across the lakes very well.

[00:02:48] So if it wasn't windy I definitely would take a little drift boat out there but if

[00:02:52] it was windy I'd go and fish off cliffs or weight out as far as I can and cast it.

[00:02:57] You know, any type of moss that I saw, any type of structure or anything like that.

[00:03:02] Is that a big point with them is, you know, trying to find structure

[00:03:07] object like that?

[00:03:08] Do you see many on like just flat smooth banks or is it usually on a, I assume

[00:03:14] they're doing that because it's an ambush location right?

[00:03:16] Yeah, they're able to hide but.

[00:03:18] Yeah, I'd say I see them all over.

[00:03:21] It depends on the water temps, you know.

[00:03:23] We get those real cold water temps.

[00:03:25] I find that they're riding along those sand banks and stuff where the moss might

[00:03:29] be 10, 15 feet out but they're sitting in the sand, you know.

[00:03:35] Not it not burrowing but sitting low in that sand trying to hide in two, three

[00:03:39] feet of water and then sometimes, you know, even when it was really cold this

[00:03:43] fall, I was finding them at 10, 15 feet and I, you know, besides sonar, I

[00:03:49] wouldn't know what was down there and it was just big rocks, big rocks, big

[00:03:53] moss pads, anything I could find like that.

[00:03:56] I would mark on my sonar and fish it for a couple hours.

[00:03:59] Yeah.

[00:04:00] Are you, I assume being a pike angler, you got to kind of commit to some

[00:04:06] spots right?

[00:04:07] You can't be super quick to jump because you're going to probably spend

[00:04:11] all day driving around and looking at other spots that are actually

[00:04:14] efficient but do you have a basic rule of thumb or is it just a gut feeling as

[00:04:18] to I spent an hour here, I feel like I covered it well.

[00:04:22] I would say good hours probably my rule, you know.

[00:04:27] Usually I only, if I'm with a buddy or a client or whatever it is, 30

[00:04:32] minute sections they fish, each angler gets a 30 minute section to

[00:04:36] fish there.

[00:04:37] If we don't see anything, let's move.

[00:04:40] Other than that, you know, sometimes I'll fish from the spot for four hours

[00:04:45] because I really think that there's something there but most of the time

[00:04:48] just an hour.

[00:04:49] Yeah.

[00:04:50] Yeah.

[00:04:51] If you start having follows, does that say you have a bunch of

[00:04:54] fish following not eat?

[00:04:55] Do you, I'm assuming you're more likely to stick it out then and try

[00:04:59] to coax that fish into.

[00:05:01] For sure.

[00:05:02] Eventually eating.

[00:05:03] Yeah.

[00:05:04] If I get a fish to follow, it means we're doing something right, you know.

[00:05:07] So they're ambushed people or ambushed fish, not people.

[00:05:11] So I'm casting right to that same spot trying to get that whether it's the

[00:05:14] same fish or maybe it's brother or sister sitting there at that same spot.

[00:05:19] It was a good spot for them to ambush for whatever reason so I'm going

[00:05:22] to keep trying.

[00:05:23] Yeah.

[00:05:24] Do you find that their habits are somewhat the same year after year as

[00:05:29] far as points you've had success on, you're more likely to find fish

[00:05:33] there again.

[00:05:34] Yeah.

[00:05:35] I would definitely say it's a water level dang basis too, you know.

[00:05:39] The reservoir we fish if it's really high, I know that I'm going to have some luck

[00:05:43] on the north end bays just because it allows you to get those really drawn

[00:05:47] out bays that have the two to three feet, three to five feet, five to ten

[00:05:53] versus if it's low and it just goes into those shelfy rocks kind of will

[00:05:57] make me go to the other, the west end, you know.

[00:06:00] Okay.

[00:06:01] Yeah.

[00:06:02] So I get, it sounds like it would be an opportunity to almost do some basic

[00:06:09] e-scouting sort of thing, right?

[00:06:10] If you're looking for those long drawn out points or big back bays that

[00:06:16] extend way into the shallows.

[00:06:19] I would assume that the evolution of mapping software and

[00:06:22] It's game changer.

[00:06:23] It's a bit of big plus.

[00:06:25] Yeah.

[00:06:26] And especially, you know, as you know, you're on a Garmin.

[00:06:28] I run a Garmin on my flat boat and it's game changing because you can

[00:06:32] record, you can get the underlay of the bottom everything you need to know.

[00:06:37] And then say you're running across the lake and it's two feet lower than

[00:06:41] the last time you were there.

[00:06:42] It adjusts everything accordingly.

[00:06:45] So you don't got to change nothing.

[00:06:47] You can look, you can use your whole mapping system to figure out

[00:06:50] your whole day, you know, you and your buddies the night before

[00:06:53] you're sitting around having a drink or whatever, you go, hey, let's

[00:06:55] go try this beta mark, you know what I mean.

[00:06:57] Right.

[00:06:58] But I took two or three days of just driving around that place mapping

[00:07:03] every single structure I could find out marking everything and, you know,

[00:07:07] that was a huge help.

[00:07:08] Yeah.

[00:07:09] Huge.

[00:07:10] Yeah.

[00:07:11] Do you find in the spring versus the fall?

[00:07:14] I guess the ultimate question is it, is their behavior the same at like,

[00:07:20] say it's 35 degrees?

[00:07:21] You find them like on the same structure there or is it, so is a water

[00:07:26] temperature based or is it more like time of year you think with like low clouds

[00:07:31] or low sun shadows?

[00:07:34] I think it changes a little bit, but only when that water it's hot and

[00:07:37] cold in my opinion.

[00:07:39] If you're going in right at ice off when they're getting ready to

[00:07:43] spawn a lot of pike from my understanding will spawn while the ice is still

[00:07:47] there.

[00:07:48] And then that ice, you know, will get a couple bays clear and you can go

[00:07:51] right to them.

[00:07:53] I typically try to stay away from them when they're doing that.

[00:07:57] But you know, anytime in the spring, I'm really going for numbers, not

[00:08:03] size.

[00:08:04] So I'll go and maybe fish a little shallower bays just to see if I can

[00:08:08] find them.

[00:08:09] Now, in the fall time, I'm always fishing shallow because I think

[00:08:13] that water getting that sun on it gets a little bit warmer in those bays.

[00:08:18] And they like to bask in it, you know, so I would say if that water is cold at

[00:08:23] all 35 to 44, I'm fishing and really shallow.

[00:08:27] If it's 45 to 60 degrees, I'm going out and fishing a little deeper 10 to 15

[00:08:33] feet.

[00:08:34] So when you're talking shallow, you're minus 10 feet or 10 feet pulling.

[00:08:39] Do you find them minus five feet often?

[00:08:41] Yeah.

[00:08:42] Especially in those sorts of spots.

[00:08:43] For sure, especially if there's a huge moss line at three feet, they're in there.

[00:08:50] And that's kind of the luxury having that pulling platform.

[00:08:53] I can get up there and I can see those fish, I mean nine out of 10 times

[00:08:57] we're spot casting to them.

[00:08:58] So that's kind of the fun part of it.

[00:09:00] Yeah, I bet.

[00:09:01] It also makes you fall apart as an angler.

[00:09:04] Right, because you know, they're there.

[00:09:06] Yeah, it kills you too.

[00:09:07] Extra adrenaline.

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:09] We're kind of lucky.

[00:09:11] You know, at the reservoir we fish, we have that long wavy type of weed versus like really

[00:09:17] thick thistle and stuff like that.

[00:09:19] So we get away with being able to see them a little easier because they're sitting and

[00:09:22] you can see them.

[00:09:23] It's not too dense, you know, so I really enjoy that.

[00:09:27] Yeah.

[00:09:28] Yeah.

[00:09:29] So I assume in the spring months when it's shallower like that, you're obviously

[00:09:33] not running a full sink, but what you're kind of go to, let's start with go to

[00:09:38] light or shallow water sort of setup as far as line rod reel.

[00:09:43] Yeah.

[00:09:44] And then we can move into deep water.

[00:09:46] My sink, you know, I like to go with like a intermediate sink, like maybe a three inches

[00:09:51] a second.

[00:09:53] That way you're throwing big flies with a lot of material sometimes and if you just

[00:09:58] throw no sink tip it's just going to sit on top of the water and not act correct,

[00:10:02] you know?

[00:10:03] Just throw an intermediate when I'm fishing three to 10 feet, you know, but that being

[00:10:09] said, I always bring three rods.

[00:10:11] I have a full sink line that's, oh what's that SA?

[00:10:14] About that nine way, you know, it's a type six.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] Type six.

[00:10:19] I mean it gets down then I'm using a sink tip with a six inches a second and then

[00:10:25] I'll go three inches a second and kind of depending on the fly too, you know, if

[00:10:29] I'm throwing a big man bear pig, I'm going to put on my medium size, you know, six

[00:10:33] inches a second.

[00:10:35] That way when I'm stripping that fly is coming back up because it's going to float

[00:10:39] with no matter what sink tip you have on it, you know, with that big deer head.

[00:10:43] So I like it to get down and kind of float back up like it's dying, you know?

[00:10:48] But those are my three go two lines.

[00:10:50] Very good.

[00:10:52] Never really thrown a floating straight floating then.

[00:10:55] Generally it sounds like you're running like light enough flies that you really stuck

[00:11:00] fishing as a popper on the surface.

[00:11:02] Exactly.

[00:11:03] Yeah, now I have a lot of people have had success, you know, catching pike on top water

[00:11:07] stuff so I mean I just haven't had that experience yet.

[00:11:11] You know, we don't really have a lot of, I don't see a lot of duck eats or anything

[00:11:15] like that, you know?

[00:11:17] We don't have any type of frogs that are going across that I have seen, you know,

[00:11:22] to where they're going to go for that type of food source.

[00:11:25] But I always go with a sink tip because I'm throwing light flies, big flies with lots of

[00:11:31] material.

[00:11:33] Now say that I'm throwing something like a dolly llama or something you could probably

[00:11:37] get away with no sink tip or anything because that fly is going to sink right away.

[00:11:41] Giant cone head.

[00:11:42] Yeah, exactly.

[00:11:44] And so when you just move out to deep water obviously then you probably scratch

[00:11:48] the intermediate a little more and you're moving towards your full sink or your stream

[00:11:53] tip sort of thing.

[00:11:54] Yeah, and if I'm fishing with friends, you know, I'll usually throw the full sink no

[00:11:57] matter where I'm at just because maybe a friend's not as experienced and that's kind

[00:12:02] of hard to manage.

[00:12:04] So maybe he'll be throwing the six inches a second up front when I'm in five to

[00:12:08] ten feet of water and I'll throw my full sink off the back of the boat or whatever

[00:12:12] it may be.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:14] You're throwing that full sink on a different rod, stiffer rod, bigger rod.

[00:12:18] Yeah, if I'm running a full sink I'm going to try to, I like the, like we have a TFO

[00:12:24] rod, the big fly.

[00:12:25] It's got two handles on it and I mean you can really just throw that sucker.

[00:12:29] If you try to throw that on my eight weight that I have my little tiny sink tip on it's

[00:12:33] just not going to throw it very well.

[00:12:36] So is it mostly eight weight driven rods or are you throwing some nines?

[00:12:40] I mean is that TFO I assume even if it's an eight it's a super stiff eight.

[00:12:44] Yeah, super stiff eight.

[00:12:45] Be equivalent to a Winston 10.

[00:12:47] Exactly.

[00:12:48] Yeah.

[00:12:49] It's the same thing and it's you know they make it for musky flies and musky and

[00:12:55] pipe flies so it's really stiff at the bottom half of it you know so you can

[00:12:58] actually put some power into it and yeah I would, I throw a lot of eight weights

[00:13:03] if I'm throwing like my little bait fish patterns like shad or something

[00:13:06] like that with EP on it I'm going to throw my eight weight because it's

[00:13:09] nice and light.

[00:13:10] Yeah more enjoyable to cast.

[00:13:12] Yeah don't walk away feeling like you threw a hundred-pitch game.

[00:13:15] Yeah.

[00:13:16] What kind of reels are kind of your go-to program?

[00:13:21] You know as far as drag do you think you need a huge drag or do you hand line

[00:13:25] a lot of those fish in?

[00:13:26] You know I would say my go-to reels are hardies.

[00:13:31] I like the hardies but I don't think you need too much because you can

[00:13:35] strip anything you know.

[00:13:37] If you get that pike I would say you get a reel with six to eight pounds

[00:13:41] you're never going to go above that of drag pressure you know what I mean so

[00:13:45] I kind of think anything would work for reels but my go-to is hardy.

[00:13:49] Yeah like those hardy ultralights.

[00:13:51] You get a huge surface area as far as your pickup too if you do get them

[00:13:57] on the reel right you can crank on them.

[00:13:59] Yeah for sure yeah I would I go large arbor for everything even trout

[00:14:05] you know I like it to pick up quick.

[00:14:08] Yeah I hate them going around a hundred times.

[00:14:11] You pick up two and a half inches for rotation right?

[00:14:14] Yeah I like the ten inches you know just going around.

[00:14:18] For sure.

[00:14:19] What's your go-to kind of leader setup do you have a tendency to go

[00:14:24] longer in the spring or longer in clear water?

[00:14:27] Yeah longer in clear water is kind of the general rule.

[00:14:30] I don't throw any type of wire anymore I really started

[00:14:34] going you know I'd throw a flouro three four foot section of flouro connected to

[00:14:38] some wire with a fly clip at the end of it so it was easy to change out.

[00:14:42] Now I've really just gotten away from throwing wire at all because I feel

[00:14:46] like where I'm fishing those those fish see it every single time you'll get

[00:14:50] a follow and they won't eat you get a follow next time with flouro they eat

[00:14:54] it you know yeah so I'm going five feet I just go the general rule I don't

[00:14:59] know arm lengths probably for me five feet for most people six feet you

[00:15:04] know yeah but other than that I typically am not too picky on that line you get it

[00:15:10] enough away it's kind of like tarpon you know you ever find a guy he's never he

[00:15:14] just goes and the guides I've been with at least you know they just snip five

[00:15:19] feet off and once it gets frayed you switch line you know put a new section

[00:15:23] on.

[00:15:24] You run at 40 pound or what kind of flouro are you normally?

[00:15:27] Yeah 40 pound yeah SA makes that I call it the blue label but the salt

[00:15:33] waterline you know and I just use that because I think it has a little bit more

[00:15:37] flexibility and durability to it.

[00:15:40] Yep and are you putting all those bugs on loop knots so you tie in a clench knot

[00:15:44] to them or?

[00:15:45] Yeah I like the loop knot that's my you know go to you know overhand to above

[00:15:51] throw it through and you're good what I've really gotten into though is you

[00:15:55] know you get into that 40 pound line and you start you do like a normal

[00:15:58] loop knot for trout four wraps and then go through you just cannot pull it

[00:16:02] tight and you know you see guys pulling them with fricking pliers and all that

[00:16:06] kind of stuff I stayed away and what I've done is leave a long tag in take a

[00:16:10] lighter and burn it down so it builds up a little head that way if that knot

[00:16:14] does slip it's still not going to go through.

[00:16:16] Yeah, it's going to move.

[00:16:18] Have you tried the weird or not the weird but the big knot

[00:16:22] tightener tool from Hatch?

[00:16:23] I have yeah I mean the less expensive or not the less expensive

[00:16:28] that's the right way.

[00:16:29] I used the end of my plier handle.

[00:16:32] Yeah you know I haven't used the hatch tool but I use the end of my plier so I

[00:16:35] could see the need for that for sure.

[00:16:37] Yeah it'd be awesome to have.

[00:16:38] Yeah I have a little bit of this fishing I've done in the past year trying to

[00:16:42] tie some knots with like 100 pound tippet without something like that and a

[00:16:46] good set of gloves there was no way you're gonna get the knot seated

[00:16:49] you know you try to hang on to it with pliers and you just couldn't pull

[00:16:52] for sure couldn't pull hard enough.

[00:16:53] Yeah and you know that plier I've always found like my pliers are

[00:16:57] always half wore out and you know ready to need some new one so you go to pull

[00:17:01] it and it slips off and cuts your line and yeah I just kind of stopped trusting

[00:17:05] it and I looked up a good solution and that burning thing you know it kind of

[00:17:09] just builds up a little head on the end of it

[00:17:11] and I've never had any slippage.

[00:17:13] Cool, yeah.

[00:17:14] Retrieval rates what's your kind of you know if I'm brand new at it like

[00:17:18] where do we start?

[00:17:20] Quarter beat is what I tell everybody.

[00:17:22] Okay.

[00:17:22] Quarter beat swim quarter beat if we're not seeing any follows

[00:17:27] go to a three strip pause make that make that bait come back up and float

[00:17:33] really act as a dying bait fish.

[00:17:36] The water's really cold I've found slower works you know maybe a half beat you're stripping it

[00:17:42] letting it sit stripping it and nine times out of ten when it is cold and I'm fishing

[00:17:47] on that really like half beat I'll get them to eat in between and so when I'm pulling

[00:17:52] all come tight to the fish you know versus maybe when the water's a little warmer 60

[00:17:59] 65 degrees you can get away with retrieving a little faster

[00:18:04] maybe an eighth beat something like that but I think the biggest thing is you know as trout

[00:18:10] put it in front of their face and acting like you're injured I think if you can do that that's

[00:18:15] the the biggest thing now in the reservoir we fish you know they have those huge shad

[00:18:21] they're like eight nine inches so they got to be pretty quick I think just if you're seeing fish

[00:18:28] moving slower you strip slower and if you see some fish falling that are coming after you

[00:18:33] strip speed up yeah create some urgency yeah and then next to the boat are you uh

[00:18:39] do you figure eight do you twitch what do you kind of do if you have a follow I would say

[00:18:44] that I don't I did do figure eight for a long time but I called Dustin and he said do ovals versus

[00:18:52] do some figure eights and that's worked much better you know yeah I figure

[00:18:56] their their turn radius isn't as quick as a like a musky that can eat in a figure eight and

[00:19:02] stuff like that but you know if they're coming towards the boat and if I have an option I'm

[00:19:06] never doing it towards the boat I'm always going away from the boat first because they see boats

[00:19:11] you know it's pretty hard to get them to eat next to the boat yeah unless they're locked in on that bait

[00:19:16] right and then I assume strip set on everything everything try not to lift yeah try not to

[00:19:23] do your best yeah probably will yeah I always just tell my the people that are fishing with me

[00:19:29] just strip until you can't strip anymore I mean you'll know when that when you got a big pike

[00:19:34] on the other end you really can't strip it anymore you know it's taking it away from

[00:19:38] you that's when you can lift your rod yeah a lot like salt water and you know they're not like

[00:19:43] jumping and thrashing around on top of the water or anything they're deep they're going

[00:19:48] straight down to the bottom and trying to horse you right you know so they're they're usually

[00:19:53] going to get you to your reel pretty quick and if you strip set it you're gonna you're gonna

[00:19:57] good are you running like a big giant guide set of pliers or a spreader or what's your go to

[00:20:04] other than losing a finger when you yeah yeah get to flirting with them I think the biggest thing

[00:20:10] that uh yes those big pliers yeah um I tried the jaw the jaw spreaders and stuff I just typically

[00:20:19] you know I don't like getting that rambunctious with the fish because you're really putting a

[00:20:24] lot I mean if their jaw locks down on that fly you're kind of screwed you know so what I do at

[00:20:29] that time is I'll just put them in a net let them sit in the water for a little bit until they

[00:20:33] relax you know pick them back up and just try to get them with the pliers or if I notice that they

[00:20:38] it went really deep sometimes you can just lift that gill plate and get in there and unhook it

[00:20:44] and then pull out and you don't know blood all that kind of stuff yeah because as soon as you

[00:20:48] get those fish to bleed they just don't stop you know it's it's hard to get them to stop

[00:20:53] especially if they gill them yeah you know um but that's a hard part about pike fishing I feel

[00:20:58] like if if you're not seeing that fish on that fly a lot of the time when you do your pause they're

[00:21:05] eating I mean they're engulfing that sucker yeah so that's kind of the hard part um about all that

[00:21:11] you know yeah are so I guess if if you have a fish follow do you give it a break or do you go

[00:21:22] right back to it if it doesn't eat and keep I go right back you go right back at it yeah I

[00:21:27] had a buddy Eric tell me you know that fish is right there always you know no matter if he's 10 feet

[00:21:33] out and five feet down where you can't see him he's still there and he's still looking for that

[00:21:38] fish that just disappeared automatically you know right um you saw that video with Ryan you know

[00:21:45] the only reason I got that on video was because he came back you know I saw that huge fish

[00:21:51] he missed and eat the first time because he'd lifted his he lifted his rod tip trout set it

[00:21:56] casted it back out there and that fish instantly locked back onto that and ate it again for a second

[00:22:02] time and he trout set for a second time so I mean we didn't get the fish but it happens yeah I mean

[00:22:08] you got a 45 inch pike chasing you down your heart's racing I mean sometimes you shit yourself

[00:22:13] yeah that was one of them you know yeah not the first time probably Ryan's done that yeah

[00:22:19] and I'll do it again yeah yeah um fly designed do you kind of have basic rules of thumb I mean

[00:22:26] you've mentioned shad there's obviously shad in the in the system yeah there's some bass some other

[00:22:32] stuff like that do you are you looking for stuff that really pushes water or are you looking for

[00:22:36] kind of light and wispy stuff for you a little bit all over the map yeah all over the map

[00:22:42] this year I found that my shad patterns worked really well I mean throwing two freaking

[00:22:47] shloppings in the back having something that flares out when it's paused and then throwing

[00:22:52] something that was nice and thick that represented those shad that were in there I also have found

[00:22:57] that sometimes they eat if you just put it in front of their face with you know the most random

[00:23:03] flies I mean I've caught them on sex dungeons and just random little flies that you know are

[00:23:08] trout flies whatever it may be um I think I just kind of go for whatever and it's really

[00:23:14] a color thing in my eyes I'll go there and I always start with my less colorful ones you know

[00:23:20] something that's a little more natural and if it doesn't work you know we all have our go-tos

[00:23:24] and if those don't work then I'm going all over the board pink and purple and green and yellow

[00:23:30] and kind of just trying to spark some interest I would say yeah biggest thing too was the

[00:23:35] length of the fly I noticed this year you know I originally when I started I was always

[00:23:40] throwing footlong flies because that's what you hear about and now I you know I found that my six

[00:23:45] to eight inch flies work work tenfolds over those big large ones um and they're easier to cast all

[00:23:52] day too you know those man bear pigs sure look pretty in the water but you cast them for two hours

[00:23:57] your toast casting a gym sock yeah you're freaking your lower boobies are hurting and all that you

[00:24:04] know for you I got oh my god yeah and your friends finally like oh nice I get to fish again

[00:24:10] right very cool so so on like six and eight inches do you bait do you normally start with

[00:24:17] like a deer head or something that pushes water are you not really worried about that I worried

[00:24:22] more about movement more worried about movement yeah um now you know it probably varies where

[00:24:28] you're at and what kind of bait fish you have but um where I fish I like the skinny patterns

[00:24:33] the most um something like uh you know those I can't remember the name of it right now but

[00:24:40] I like those packerini tails yeah coming off the back you can interchange I like throwing just nice

[00:24:45] little easy e p patterns that create a really uh like a back and forth you know you get a man

[00:24:52] bear pig and you get all of this all of this material in the middle by those shanks and stuff

[00:24:57] they don't really fold over as nice as something that has very light material on it it's very

[00:25:03] skinny and it's just kind of folding and falling all over the place you know so I do think it varies

[00:25:09] where you're at and time of year and all that stuff but my go to is to always make it really fat

[00:25:13] and really skinny really fat this way and skinny width wise oh I've always had you had better luck

[00:25:20] on that now when we're there I always if I have two anglers fishing one's throwing a skinny

[00:25:27] with it doesn't push a lot of water and one's throwing one that pushes a lot of water

[00:25:32] you know just trying to mix it up till he gets cues and follows and things to pursue yeah and then

[00:25:37] you probably change if you got one that's out producing the other exactly yeah what I found most

[00:25:44] was the color you know if if I found that this white one was getting followed six out of you know

[00:25:51] out of the 10 fish we've had we're going to put on white and I'll put on a white that pushes

[00:25:55] more water in a white that's skinny and if that one still produces more I'll put the same

[00:26:00] pattern on yeah you know make sense yeah I have kind of been this way with fishing my whole life

[00:26:07] of just put it in front of its face and it'll eat it you know but that doesn't seem to be true with

[00:26:12] pike seems to be always switching you know that's part of the fun too yeah exactly for sure not

[00:26:18] that easy to figure out but keeps you wanting to go back to the well and try to figure it out

[00:26:23] yeah right for sure yeah you know like just this year I went with my buddy Andrew we didn't see a fish

[00:26:28] all day long I mean it was just a long day and within 15 minutes we caught 240 inches and you're like

[00:26:35] back to back fit you're like that that made it worth it right I think that was the fly no I think it was

[00:26:40] time of day and where we were at that time you know and just a lot of pure shit luck you know

[00:26:47] and I think that's fishing take it yeah take it take it exactly hard to count on it but you'll

[00:26:53] take it every time it happens yeah um kind of tips and advice you could lend anyone that's you know

[00:27:00] looking to get into it just put your time in because it's going to take it's going to take a lot of

[00:27:06] time you know you might go out and catch one your first day just by like we said pure shit luck but

[00:27:11] if you go out and you don't catch one for another five six times that's normal you know I went out

[00:27:16] for a whole year and been three four fish you know while I was learning where to go fish and then

[00:27:23] you find your go-to spots and then you start learning oh well this go-to spot has a big

[00:27:28] boulder out here hmm that one so does that spot over there let's go try that right you know and

[00:27:33] you just start learning yeah keep it simple stupid right it's simple stupid exactly if it works

[00:27:39] find the same system somewhere else and do it again yeah yeah and I'm sure you could get way

[00:27:44] more techie on it and stuff but I think the amount of time we spent on that reservoir and

[00:27:49] have mixed everything up for the same things to keep working over and over has been I mean a

[00:27:55] noticeable thing you know stick to your basics and and go to it cool yeah places people can find

[00:28:03] you obviously they can call the shop if they're interested yeah look in the trip you can always

[00:28:08] give us a ring and we can get them scheduled other than that social media stuff yeah what you

[00:28:13] 307 it's my instagram try to you know I'm bad about posting but I'm trying to get better on that but

[00:28:21] yeah that's about the only place and your uh tiktok handle I don't even I don't even have one

[00:28:29] understand I need to I need to get better on that yeah no I don't think so

[00:28:36] certain platforms that just don't quite make sense sometimes for a fishing guide right but

[00:28:41] yeah we appreciate you joining us absolutely thanks for having me thanks goodie thanks thank you

[00:28:46] for listening to the ugly bug podcast if you've enjoyed this episode please consider subscribing

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