Streamer Fishing with Andy Brust

[00:00:04] Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast, A production of The Ugly Bug Fishing, and Crazy Rainbow Fishing.

[00:00:10] Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast. On today's episode we sit down with Andy Brust, a very well-respected veteran fishing guide here on the North Plot, and definitely a streamer guru. There's not many people that have a streamer collection or the streamer knowledge that Andy possesses.

[00:00:32] So we pick his brain about streamer fishing, everything from beginner issues and quality equipment gear, all the way to kind of some more advanced tactics. So we look forward to that. Stick around here. We're going to take a quick step away and hear a word from our sponsors.

[00:00:53] The Ugly Bug Podcast is proudly sponsored by Fly Omen, Wyoming, Wyoming rooted fly fishing apparel and accessories challenging the traditional move, designed by English or English. Andy, thanks for joining me. I'm glad to have you in.

[00:01:09] We figured we'd take on the subject of streamer fishing. It's kind of a giant subject. There's a whole kinds of crap. How many years now have you been guiding on the plot? I think it's pushing 15. Wow, a lot of trips. Elbows are hanging in there. Yep.

[00:01:32] I guess personally when I think is streamer fishing on the plot, I kind of think of use. So that's one reason we wanted to pull you in for that. Well, just start off by someone is looking to get into it.

[00:01:46] I assume most people that are really tuned in and learn about streamer fishing obviously have done a little bit of leg work but what's kind of your favorite, Broadway set up sort of thing for Western streamer fishing?

[00:02:01] I guess I kind of like a longer one out of the boat, ten footer, so like a ten foot seven way. That helios is a really good one for that. Yeah. It's got the backbone and you still get it where you want it.

[00:02:15] So I found bankfish and I go for like a nine footer just because of the back cast and everything else. Yeah, pretty heavy lines. Generally a streamer line or you kind of all over the map with sink tip streamer lines.

[00:02:31] Oh, it depends on the water and how the fish are acting. I guess this time of year you can either go have your flies and a floating line or you know a light sink and you know some lighter flies and get it down there.

[00:02:46] Yeah, they're not real fast right now those fish. Right. You got to kind of float down a little bit this time of year. Yeah, kind of bottom in the face before they'll eat it sometimes. Right. Yeah, dragon in there.

[00:03:00] Yeah, so we're filming this in the cold weather months. So yeah, they definitely get a little more left. Yeah, yeah, everything slows down a little bit. Yeah, with that assume you try to slow down retrieval rates a little bit.

[00:03:13] Yeah, take for that almost even dragging it sometimes in this cold stuff you know those those crudheads are kind of climbing on the bottom and you know leeches aren't moving real fast. Mm-hmm. Even the minnow's aren't really jettin' around so right.

[00:03:27] Yeah, just kind of match in the hatch I guess with the speed of that.

[00:03:32] Yeah, as the summer comes on you can start seeing more of the bait fish and the minnow's and stuff and so that that's when I speed it up and you know start stripping it a little faster and jerkier. Yep. On your retrieve is it? Mm-hmm.

[00:03:47] I guess someone that's super green to it what's your do you have them hang it in their trigger finger and strip from behind the trigger finger? Yeah. Yeah, I like how I'm control with that trigger finger.

[00:03:57] That way you don't miss any sets or you know if you got to pick it up and throw it again you got to control with that. Yeah.

[00:04:04] And then do you have a like standard retrieval rate of strip it quick off the bank and a lot of fall or you just kind of a... Um, it depends on the weight of the fly I guess too.

[00:04:15] So some of that where you're hitting the banks you know you want to give it a second for it to sink and settle there. There's other times where I'm ripping it as fast as you can right off the bank.

[00:04:25] That's more that that real high water worth flooded and everything you know. I guess this time of year I'm kind of just going real slow and just just stripping it through those fish. Yeah.

[00:04:39] Yes, this is the way I say that just keep pulling and sometimes that those flies will just stop down there this time of year so. Yeah.

[00:04:46] So you really don't have to do any sort of variance if they feel a tug just keep stripping the line and do that strip it real hard.

[00:04:53] And then if nothing's there you know, just you can kind of pause it with that thing die again and you'll pick up some fish that way too. So yeah.

[00:05:00] Are you, uh, do you have them do anything different when they get like closer to the boat as far as speed or consistency? Oh, sometimes like right now they're they're pretty deep but like summertime fishing.

[00:05:16] It's almost a figure eight you'll see some of those brown truck come right up to the boat and you know it takes some slipes at it so I kind of slow it down and mess it around.

[00:05:24] You know if you do get one chasing it all the way back then you know give them a chance to eat it right out the boat. Yeah, I never feel like I can make the right judgment there right away.

[00:05:33] I'll let it pause and then they swim away next time on my car I'm going to strip it quicker and then they swim away every now and then I'm fortunate enough to make it work but yeah, you know, I was seem to guess wrong.

[00:05:45] We're even getting that strip set when they're up that close to it's a you have no place for your rod or anything you know so yeah little tough there yeah.

[00:05:54] When so obviously there's kind of two different segments one being you know if you're weighed fish in the other in a drift boat.

[00:06:01] Yeah, so when you're in a drift boat and you have two anglers casting do you have them you know square the shoulders to the side of the bank that you're fishing and try to throw at 90 degrees.

[00:06:12] Pretty much yeah, that kind of saves from crossing the lines and everything else and I kind of like that you know keep intention to your to your flies so you're pulling it straight back and you you can feel every little bump and so you know not having too much of a slack line in there like jerking it.

[00:06:28] I see a lot of guys miss their fish when they you know and they're using their rod tip to control that. Right, not always but I mean some of those fish or you know they'll eat it in turn real fast and you got slack line and they're.

[00:06:41] Yeah, so yeah, I try and have them keep their rod tips down and you know 90 degrees to the bank. Mm-hmm almost in the water with the rod tips. I feel like that kind of helps with the with the old trout hook set. Yeah, keeping it down you know.

[00:06:58] So in trout hooks at you're talking about lifting the rod. Yeah, going vertical with it. I don't think a lot of people realize that you know when a bait fish especially is a vaiding prey.

[00:07:09] They rarely rise in the water column right their natural instinct is to speed up.

[00:07:15] If I go hide in yeah find something to hide in so often with a strip set if you miss them or they tail grab it or whatever it may be or they're trying to stun it.

[00:07:26] Yep, right that if you just kind of continue to keep doing what you're doing they'll come back and eat it again. If you raise it most of the time it's over with right you take it away from them they're not going to find it.

[00:07:37] Yep, yeah, but then like say you got to keep it moving sometimes too otherwise you know. I don't like it more in some ways. Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:47] I used to fish with an old timer Montana that always had a his favorite method was to use the rod tip to manipulate the line so you'd move more like a horizontal jigging motion right and then strip your slack back to neutral. Okay, to 12 o'clock.

[00:08:07] And it you know I noticed some decent results with it. I think it in a weird way presented more like 90 degree angles right it made the fish swim a little swim a little on a desk or series.

[00:08:21] And when you kind of look at the science of it all right when a fish can attack bait from a 90 degree angle. Yeah, like they rarely eat it one and they don't really ever see bait fish swimming straight out them. Yeah, right?

[00:08:35] And then sometimes they'll peel off and follow it and eat it tail first but big predatory fish would rather eat it head first or sideways. Yeah, and then turn it.

[00:08:45] Well, and you think about like they're their fins, you know, they're not made to go down their throats backwards. They got to eat them head first so they're either going to stun it or you know aim for that head. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:56] So even if there's back there, you know short strike in it, they're usually going to come back and come back and try and get a big bite of it, you know. Sometimes the leaves you're setting done.

[00:09:07] Yeah, feel them and not take it away from them sort of thing. Yeah, right. See you know. See you on the same as yours. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So really at a 90 degree angle out of the drift boat, you're actually being the drift boats kind of still moving.

[00:09:23] You're really in theory, you're very slightly quartering towards the back, right? Because the belly that align is dragging. Yeah, dragging downhill. But also helping keep tension as the retrieval comes in. Yeah.

[00:09:40] Yeah, I think are you believe it higher water that you increase that angle towards the rear a little bit or do you try to stay pretty well normal with that? And just increased speed. I usually just increase the speed. Yeah.

[00:09:56] That way I can keep both those guys going towards their spots on the bank and you don't have one going back or forth and you know getting to the spot where you're back casting over the top of each other. I'm getting tangled that way too.

[00:10:10] So I try and keep them in their lanes, you know, and yeah, keep them from casting over top of each other. Keeps the lefty and the front if you happen to have the lefty. Yeah, avoid as many of those as you can. That's right. Yeah.

[00:10:23] So when you're fishing from shore, are you trying to throw across current or are you increasing your angles one way or the other a little bit more than all of it from shore?

[00:10:34] Yeah, you know there's some rocks out in the middle that need to get fished and then there's definitely some pockets on the bank that need it too. So I'm kind of doing everything and then I'll move my way up or over with it or down river I guess.

[00:10:46] Yeah. I feel like you get more more eats coming down river and straight across when you're way fishing instead of pulling it up the river. Right. It's pretty unnatural for those fish to be doing that. Yeah.

[00:11:02] It depends there's some eddies in there too where that currents kind of switching around and so it does bait fish don't know which way they're going. So sometimes that works too. Yeah. So I'm very cool. What weight rod are you generally most of the time a seven?

[00:11:17] So the six will do it on this river too, you know, not throwing giant huge flies. But yeah, some of them were pretty heavy, especially when you get two of them on there. Yeah.

[00:11:29] Is your preference to run one or run two or I like running two most of the time, you know, give them an opportunity either one unless they're really key to it on something but. Yeah. Sometimes it's a big one in a small one.

[00:11:45] Sometimes it's, you know, two big ones or two small ones. Do you have a belief on like opposite colors? Do you throw bright and dark at the same time, or do you kind of stay in the same color family and move through them?

[00:11:58] I kind of switch them up, give them something different. Whether it's a little bait fish chasing a leach or, you know, just having a leach on there that they can see.

[00:12:09] You know, putting the two of them together, I feel like it helps utilize your time out there, I guess more. Yeah. Sometimes there's that weird I guess, at least in my belief, there's a weird like predatory instinct.

[00:12:23] If another fish sees, yeah, bait fish, trying moving quick or trying. I've always believed that like there's just something instinctual. Yeah. They see a bunch of food or a bunch of fish acting one way they want to go inspect and see what's going on. Right.

[00:12:41] I also think personally, I always attribute it a little bit to jealousy of like that little eight inch rainbows going to go eat. That leach, I'll show him. Sorry, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're all after those monsters. Right.

[00:12:55] So do you vertically strip or jig like when you're weight fishing on a shelf? Do you try to let it tumble off the shelf and then like move it vertically? Or you always kind of stay rot-tipped down? Yeah.

[00:13:10] A lot of that kind of depends on the bait that I'm using too if it's a crowd ad, you know, I definitely jig that more. I'll do that swimming, even leaches do a bunch of that in water too.

[00:13:19] So yeah, I think the longer you can keep it in front of that fish, the better chance you got to. Sure.

[00:13:26] So if you're slowing it down, you know, a wiggling in front of them, you know, he's going to get mad and either take a swipe at it or decide he's hungry. Yeah.

[00:13:34] So kind of go to let's jump to fly lines a little bit on like, are you running a sink tip or a full sink or what's the kind of...

[00:13:44] Like a slow sink tip on this river, so you don't have the, you know, we don't have the big fast banks most of the time here.

[00:13:51] So it's kind of fishing the whole thing back to the boat, you know, it's not just the banks, so that slow sink kind of keeps it in his own longer. Yeah.

[00:14:01] A lot of these fish, I mean, this time of year they're not up towards the top, so you go to get it down to the bottom but you don't want to be hanging on the bottom in there.

[00:14:09] Yeah, just kind of letting it flutter down in the strikes on down there, you know. Yeah. And then are you running a traditional leader or you just run a level line off the end? I pretty much go level line, I'll go straight 15 pound off of my fly line.

[00:14:28] I still do run a swivel on there too, so I'll run like 15 pound and then I'll sometimes I'll jump to 12 or just stick with the 15 but I think that swivel gives it another kind of hinge point in there. Okay.

[00:14:39] And gives another spot to, you know, move around there. Yeah. So and then so from swivel, I mean, it's your normal like a four feet to the swivel and then a foot from there or how do you kind of break it down when you go down the leader?

[00:14:54] I guess on my personal rod, I got a 20 pound chunk of maxima that's about four foot long just to give it a stiff butt section on there. And then I'll go a leader and then like to 12 pound probably two foot after this swivel. Okay.

[00:15:11] And then depending on if I want another fly, I'll go off of the back of that too. Do you run another two foot chunk or approximately about two foot somewhere in there? And you're putting them on loop knots or on standard clenched knots? Yeah.

[00:15:26] Most of the time it's on loop knot both of them. If I got an articulated one on the front, I go to the front hook band. You tie off the front hook band, not the rear hook band. Yeah. To leave that other one free out there or motion.

[00:15:40] Yep. It doesn't seem to twist up any more than the other way. Mm-hmm. It still gives that fly a motion up there in the front. So yeah. Yeah. Hi, really do that.

[00:15:52] I usually always have like a standard streamer up front and the articulated in the back to try to maximize movement. But it makes sense. I've just never tried to tie off to the front hook. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:05] Obviously tie the rear hook and then it's just a fixed right slows it all down. Doesn't make it go. It doesn't give it that movement. Yeah. Yeah, that front hook works pretty good. There is another loop knot that you can tie in the front. You know, it's a...

[00:16:18] We're going to put both of them on a loop knot. Mm-hmm. So that's a pretty cool trick on there too. Keeps everything in line and... Yeah. Pretty good stuff. I like the level I need to do and a little heavier tip it on your throwing six dollar... Yeah.

[00:16:34] Seven dollars streamers. Yeah. Snap them off in a tree right? Yeah. Or even worse than that, you know, lose a big fish, because of it. Mm-hmm. You're always going to get some nicks and stuff when you're pulling across them rocks and logs. Yeah. Not the time for that.

[00:16:48] Yeah. So you generally floral carbon on your bug side to help reduce nicks and tension and yep. That's very cool. Um... When you go into fly design, do you take into account like slower retrieve or you trying to run a dumbbell

[00:17:06] Lied up or the hook point up or... I don't mess around with that too much. I mean, some of those j-cooks are pretty cool. They bounce on the bottom like that, but I'm not trying to rub it right on the bottom.

[00:17:20] So yeah, most of the time I'm either cone head or even those tungsten... You know, just a tungsten bead on the front there. Mm-hmm. It gets it down pretty quick too. Yeah. Yeah. Do you... So, uh... I guess we'll...

[00:17:44] If we go back to like fly design a little bit or you generally looking for like lighter with speed more movement sort of streamers. Is that kind of your first grab or are you trying to get some... You know... I'm trying to get some... A little bit denser.

[00:18:00] Yeah. I mean the stuff that we have in this river is, you know, the crudads and stuff. They're pretty dens and... Yeah, I mean some of those leeches are... You know, they kind of flutter around, but the min was in the crudads.

[00:18:12] I feel like they're pretty dense and you just want to keep that... That silhouette going down there, I guess. Yeah. More than anything. Are you a big believer in dark... Dark flies in lower light conditions and brighter bugs and brighter?

[00:18:28] Or do you pay attention more to like a water clarity and try to match that same water clarity on this river? Yeah. You know, it's a... The sparkle obviously helps in the dirtier water and then more natural when it's real clear.

[00:18:44] And I try and get away from some of that sparkly stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Or bait fish and stuff in here. It really sparkly anyhow. You know, they kind of got that dull color to them. Yeah. Lots of baby rainbows. But they just don't really...

[00:19:01] And for most people, they, you know, when the rainbows are a small, like they're stripe and color isn't that great. Their silver is actually more of like a slight gray versus a super shiny right? It's always amazed me that like a mepspinner, Yeah.

[00:19:18] And it makes sense it works because you got a fluttering blade but like a min of that size really isn't bright silver. The way they have spinned blade is... No, that's a predatory instinct kicking in on them. Yeah, you know, seeing something sparkly. Yeah.

[00:19:33] Have you started messing with the multiple or articulated, you know, with all the game changer stuff and multiple joints? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's that critical on our river. The motion and stuff with these, you know. We have enough current that it's moving and, you know.

[00:19:53] Yeah. I mean, you want a little bit of movement obviously but... Right. Yeah. A lot of work goes into this game changer stuff. Yeah, it's kind of hard to make a living guiding on 16-dollar streamers too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. They seem to eat them up pretty good. Yeah.

[00:20:12] Yeah. But they're kind of fun to throw and unique the way they swim. They sure do move. They do move. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we're a little unique here on the plat. Like we don't have much... You don't have scalpons.

[00:20:25] Really are baitfish or baby browns, baby rainbows. Yeah. And then you'd kind of mentioned, you know, leaches, crawfish. Yeah. You know, my grandpa, like he used to always fish a woolly worm. Yeah. Now I don't really think they're eating as a worm. There is a crane-fly larvae just...

[00:20:42] The leach. The leach. Yeah. Yeah. That's where a lot of my patterns come in. It's, you know, kind of a mixture between leaches and crudads and, you know, they're both sparkle sometimes for a minute or two. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:57] I don't know exactly like with the resty trombone for, you know, it's, you know, they could be a leach or crudad or a baitfish. baitfish. Yeah. Yeah. It's always... the leach thing is always interesting, you know, being in the shop so much.

[00:21:11] Like, a lot of people just don't think about fishing leaches as streamers. Yeah. Or the leaches that they have seen are like giant bunny leaches that when you really look at, like, a leach in the water compared to a giant bunny leach.

[00:21:24] They don't look in, you know, a leach is often like the diameter of a pan or a pencil. Yeah. Right. They're not a bit glob. Yeah. Right. Not here. Yeah. But yeah. We know small pine squirrel leach or a hot head.

[00:21:41] I'm sure you've thrown like John Bars, Slump Buster sort of thing, right? Yeah. It's pretty simple, but it is effective. They do work. Yeah. You have kind of go to Crodad Streamer Pattern when you... Oh, not really. I mean, I tie some.

[00:21:58] I do like those sex dungeons at certain times. You know, some of these other, there's Nancy Peas and stuff like that. Yeah. They have their days, but... Yeah. I guess it's more about the silhouette instead of those pinchers and stuff I feel like. So, yeah.

[00:22:17] Kind of just some stuff that I've tied up and that rhymes the work. Yeah. Do you generally fish those in like a gray or you fish in darker? Like a little darker, yeah. A little darker, yeah. I'll live in, you know, a brown, even a tan.

[00:22:32] I do throw some black stuff too, but it seems like that brown and the olive is kind of my go-to colors. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. I mean, that thin man kind of has all of it, you know, all of it put together. Yeah.

[00:22:47] That's another good one that can be anything out there, so... Yeah. It's just... Yeah. I've seen your streamer collection. It's not quite as impressive as my flash-off streamer collection, but it's pretty low close. It's more or less than that. Yeah. But it's pretty impressive. Do you have a...

[00:23:08] You know, I've fished with people that like, they kind of have a system right where they like, all right, we're going to start with white and then I'm going to move to all of them. And then I'm going to move through this progression. Do you...

[00:23:19] Do you just trust your... You're instinct on it or do you have more of a set kind of... This is usually my go-to when I'm going to start that color for that start with. Yeah. A little baby rainbow pattern. It's a good one. You know what?

[00:23:32] I like those laser legals. Yeah. About that size, you know. I mean, that's a... That's a great size for these fish and, you know, not just to target after the trophy ones. But to get a bunch of fish in too. Right. Yeah.

[00:23:46] It's usually like one of those and... And a thinment, I mean, is... I've got some of the biggest fish I've caught on this river has been on a thinment, you know. Yeah. Stripping that thing. So that's definitely a good one.

[00:23:59] But like those peanut envy's and a Thai couple like that, like your ditch witch. And those are great ones too. That size seems to be the ticket around here. So if you... When you have someone hook up with a solid fish, you're kind of queues and tactics there.

[00:24:20] Do you have them just keep stripping? Do you have them? I just slow roll it and get it on the reel. Kind of what you're going to if you, you know, some walks on the river. Get those big strips that's in, you know.

[00:24:32] If they have to, you know, even do a couple of them to get that thing buried. And then I like having them fight it on the reel just because I trust that mechanical more than their hands, you know. So... Yeah.

[00:24:45] I've seen a lot of big fish come off, you know, or... That fish turns to make it run and he's... Yeah. So... My old boss, I'm on tennis, I trust the reel. It doesn't have adrenaline. Yeah. That's right. You know. You know, here, human error in that one.

[00:24:59] Right. Now how about those fish to come to the surface and just start kind of snake roll on it. Snake roll on and wallowing. Do you just keep stripping? If you... You know, I usually try and give them a little bit of slack then. Yeah.

[00:25:13] I feel like if you keep stripping it's just going to pull that thing out when they're rolling. Yeah. So I try and get them off of the surface if I can. So just give them just a little bit of slack.

[00:25:21] I'm very, very, that head again and stop that roll. Yeah. But, yeah, it gets your heart pumping when they do that. Right. Yeah. So real big fish, do you try to get... I mean, is obviously the land, is the eventual goal.

[00:25:37] But through the fight, do you try to get your boat positioned on the downstream side of the fish that you're fighting fish and current? Yeah. Yeah. Try and fight them up, river. Try not to let the fish get ahead of the boat. Right.

[00:25:52] So you're dragging it straight up. Streamed. Yeah. Yeah. Keep that tension in that. That'll keep that hook buried in the corner of his mouth there too. Yeah. Yeah. And then try to not get them too excited when you do see the fish. Right.

[00:26:08] That's a big deal for them guys. So yeah, my y'all have got a long time client stayin' that years ago he... He hooked this just jumbo cut throat and I actually got out of the boat like a knucklehead.

[00:26:24] Like the air of why did I give up the boat advantage right? I thought we were ready to land it and jump down the boat and run down it. Took a stab out of it and missed it and it took off and stand kinda sought roll.

[00:26:37] And I was like, uh, don't worry, stand. It's not as big as you think right? And he just flicked. He was like, just through you. I just saw it. Get your fast in the boat. Right. I've battled like that.

[00:26:50] Luckily, we landed it because he didn't ever let me live it down if we never landed it. Yeah, I was trying to keep him calm but it didn't work because he saw it. Right. I made the mistake. I let him see it.

[00:27:01] Now obviously made the mistake he'd get now the boat. But it was a pretty comical deal. He tells the story quite often because he's like, Blake was using his soft soothing voice. Right. And he's like, he wouldn't fool me. Yeah. Yeah. I knew damn well. So, so he...

[00:27:17] Any other, you know, kind of odd, you know, odds and ends, words of advice that you can lend people other than stay persistent because it's not always, yeah, gang of usters every day sort of deal. Yeah. It's worth it when it does happen.

[00:27:31] But let's say you just got to think about your hatch. You know, imagine your hatch with the streamers and that'll kind of dictate your speed on your retrieve and where you're throwing it.

[00:27:42] You know, like this time you're like, I can say you can fish these big soft spots and there's going to be some fish laying in there. I'm cruising around looking for food, you know. So yeah. And then obviously once you get to like the fast ripples and stuff,

[00:27:59] if you go over the big horn, I mean, you're throwing it in six inches of water. So you're stripping it pretty quick up. Yeah, keep it moving. Yeah. But there's some big fish that'll sit in that shallow stuff too. So yeah.

[00:28:11] I know you're not huge on social media, but yeah, if anyone's trying to check things out, you got Instagram, Facebook, you know, yeah, I don't put a whole bunch on it. Yeah, I'll leave that for you guys. And with that's what's your Instagram address? Wow, breast. Okay. Yeah.

[00:28:30] And then obviously if someone's interested in booking, they can call the shop. Yep. Call the shop. Get on your schedule. Yeah, let's go streamer fishing. Better do it quick because you're starting to fill up. Just starting to feel like looking at your May today.

[00:28:43] There's not a whole lot of space in there. You're going to, you're going to lose a little bit of winter weight. Gain some shoulder muscle back. Yeah. We're out the Melva similar. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for joining us, Andy. Appreciate it.

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