Intro to Fly Tying with Adam Pennington

[00:00:01] Fly Shop, And Crazy Rainbow Fly Fishing Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast. In today's episode we have Adam Pennington, A guide here at The Ugly Bug Fly Shop and Crazy Rainbow. Adam has had the pleasure of guiding multiple locations and is a super-evident flytire designer.

[00:00:29] We're going to talk about tips, tactics, equipment and hopefully lend you a little advice on flytank stuff. Before we jump into that let's take a quick look from our sponsors. The Ugly Bug Podcast is proudly sponsored by Fly Omen.

[00:00:49] Why Omen rooted fly fishing apparel and accessories, challenging the traditional mode, designed by English or English? So how are you doing Adam? I'm good, how are you, Blake? Good, good. Thanks for joining us. I'm going to slide that at you just to hear. There we go. Sounds good.

[00:01:08] Let's begin like how do you get into fly fishing? What kind of got you going there? Well, uh, started fly fishing at Upfish my whole life but all they spend fishing for bass and cropping stuff.

[00:01:21] Group in Missouri. So it was a little bit different opportunity there but, uh, learn to fly fish through a scouting program actually. Had a mentor of mine invite me to go to the flytine merit badge and it up help and teach as a leader, right?

[00:01:39] And learn to tie flies in cast the same day which I think is pretty unique. Really unique. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people get to learn to tie flies that early in their fly fishing career but,

[00:01:52] anyway, learn to that way and start a fishing for bass and blue-gill and cropping and stuff and Hillbilly bone fishing which is catfish and stuff like that. So, um, learned in the Midwest and ended up getting into trout fish and a little later on.

[00:02:08] That same mentor took me down to what we call a trout park in Missouri, right? Uh-huh. Called Bennett Spring State Park and they stock a bunch of fish there and it's usually spring fed and, um, easy fishing for the most part.

[00:02:24] And that's how I learned and big crowds you get the lines of people along the bank and that's where I got my start. So, how far has like been at springs from Kansas City or any other major cities? Yeah, it's cities. Things like couple hours just two hours.

[00:02:40] Okay. I grew up in North East Missouri and so for us it was like a six hour drive to go down there. Okay. There's a big trip, you know.

[00:02:46] So, it was exciting to get an invite to go do that and take a friend with me and we had a great time and you learned a trout fish. Cool? Yeah. And then what brought you a Wyoming way?

[00:02:58] So, after college, I took a job with game and fish here in Casper and worked as a statewide fisheries technician and got to travel the state of Wyoming and learned a bunch of different fisheries.

[00:03:11] That's when I really started to get good trout fish and was in an out of the shop all the time. Yeah. I learned a bunch about tying and materials and really got into it at that point in time. Yeah.

[00:03:26] And then you kind of jumped around a little bit, you were here for a period of time and then... Yeah. So actually, when that job ended, I remember coming in and sitting down with you and getting some advice on how to present in a tying setting, right?

[00:03:43] Like, present on video and so that's why we had a discussion about that. And it actually helped me get that job. Took a job in Missouri working on a private property called Dogwood Canyon.

[00:03:57] And it was a Springfed Creek owned by Johnny Morris that was stocked with trout and guided there for a year and a half or so before I started my own thing on Taney Como, which is the tailwater of the white river down in Missouri.

[00:04:15] And guided there for a little while and then moved to Idaho, where I worked at Sun Valley Outfitters. Got it there for three summers and in the meantime went to Alaska in the fall and got it for Silver Salvation.

[00:04:28] So that was the beginning of my career and then ended up here. And happy to be here. Yeah, sure. Don't take it back. Yeah, man. Get you out of Idaho. Yeah. I don't know if that's a good thing or not. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:45] It's sometimes all the dry fly fish and that's something. So you're obviously an avid tire and that's kind of what we're going to... For the most part talk about today but... Sure. But when you be in the...

[00:04:57] Oddly really unique to start tying like the first day you really got into it. Have you always kept up with the tying aspect of it? Yeah. So in 2017 I was working for Gamma Fish.

[00:05:10] I did the cut slam and kind of challenged myself to tile the flies that I was going to catch my cut through it on. Which, moving from Missouri, learning the bugs out here was probably the most difficult, especially in Idaho where we've got everything from Drake's to pink,

[00:05:30] yellow stuff, you know, to fish and stone flies. So learning the bugs I think was the challenge and then just playing with materials and looking at bugs in the shop trying to mimic what was in there and just trying to figure out how to tie everything I needed.

[00:05:51] So I challenged myself to always fish with my own flies. I think that was... I think for me it was just being cheap, you know. So being frugal and trying to save money on buying flies. It's a big budget for a guide if you're not tying it.

[00:06:11] So I think for myself it was just trying to save money by tying all my own flies. Somehow I've kept up with it. This year I've done really well. I've tied a lot this winter to prepare and I've only bought like 2 dozen flies this year.

[00:06:28] So pretty proud of that. Yeah, and I often get the question of like, you know, is it really cost effective? Right. And I think it is for someone like yourself. Yeah, I think I definitely is.

[00:06:43] If you do it a certain way, I have kind of a stock pile of materials and I tie with a lot of natural materials that have honoured in the past. And to have a collection of materials, it may cost a lot.

[00:06:56] But when you think about how many bugs I'm getting from a phasant romper, whatever, I think it's really cost effective to do. Yeah. But saving money on hooks and stuff too. Getting proud of deals as a guide. Definitely helps. But I think it's definitely worth tying.

[00:07:14] It does take a lot of time and that's probably the biggest factor. And if you're a player, people argue that the time is worth more money to them. Yeah, but like in your situation, right when you got some downtime in the winter months,

[00:07:28] in a way you're kind of paying yourself is just saving on the other end, right? Yeah, and I kind of consider it like, you know, as a guide, you're working a full-time job. And some days you're off. And in the winter you're off.

[00:07:40] So if you're still working and tying during those winter months, it's still part of your job. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you, I guess, do you find yourself obviously you're tying more for work? Do you find yourself needing to like just tie for fun? I can't do it.

[00:08:02] Yeah, and I get that when, so like, I plan trips to go fish for myself and Morgan and I will go fish somewhere in the state.

[00:08:12] I don't know if we're going to Mexico fish for roosters down there and I've got some self-ish ideas and stuff too that we're going to try to pursue this year. And so that's my fun time.

[00:08:24] It's been a bit of a tonal out of two flies for that, and just having fun with that stuff on my days off. Yeah. Yeah, I know personally for me, like I can production tie for a period of time.

[00:08:37] I guess, I guess a little burn out and have to just do something totally different or something. I've been thinking of that's totally random. Yeah, I've been, yeah, I've also tied like some Drake's recently.

[00:08:48] I used to have pattern on a tie to hide a knot of hope that just haven't tied for a while. And I just just filled the box with those and just being creative. I think there's an avenue there to be creative and tie whatever you want.

[00:09:05] And I think I play a lot of times with mixing flies that are working on the reef with other flies that are working on the reef and try to, you know,

[00:09:14] I've tied a split back this spring that I was fishing that I kind of mixed it with a Darth Vader. So a little bit and had some iris thread from wings there and it was working, so I just kept playing with it.

[00:09:29] I've been doing that a lot lately. I didn't do it as much last year, I think I was just behind on time but having a little extra time to play with stuff has been fun. Yeah, for me personally tying is also like a weird therapeutic.

[00:09:46] I can focus on one specific thing, right? My mind has to kind of hone in on something instead of daydreaming or thinking about something else.

[00:09:54] Yeah, for sure. I agree with you there. I pretty much use it as like my settle down and I kind of thing sit after dinner and tie or something like that after a trip.

[00:10:05] A lot of times I come home with an idea or or I need more this. So I sit down right after work and crank out a dozen flies. Right. Yeah. That usually happens.

[00:10:19] I assume, obviously here in Idaho we probably have some crossover obviously we don't have the drakes and that's sort of stuff but Here we use a lot of foam back stuff where you're using some of that night ho or is that a little more unique to hear.

[00:10:33] I'm not really that's not really that's more unique to hear like the Metham's and ours too. And Idaho is a lot more natural. A lot of deer hair if I was going to tie anything that floated it was deer hair wasn't going to be foam.

[00:10:47] And that was specifically that was silver creek, which is a pretty technical fishery and fish like to see you know more natural moving stuff than foam bug or You know, synthetic. Yeah. So in a lot of times that was all dry flies.

[00:11:08] You know, fishing in Idaho was all dry and here it's all in the amps which arguably is you know even a little more cost effective just crank out a bunch of necks and not tiny dry stuff.

[00:11:19] So she went to get into leeches and worms and some of that stuff you can really crank through all. Yeah, gear wise where do you like what vice you tying on now what's your kind of go to there?

[00:11:31] So as a beginner my parents gave me a peak vice for Christmas one year and I still have it and I still tie on it probably 11 years later. And I'm a big fan of it. It's a true rotary, you know, not it's pretty simple.

[00:11:49] There's not a lot of moving pieces and then I also have a briegel rotary that I tie on for my bigger stuff. Yeah. Then tie in some tube flies on it and kind of have a device to tie on on the briegel stuff like that.

[00:12:05] And I know Utah and the glissie vice but I think for beginners, the peak is pretty awesome. Yeah. Or brings any traveler. Yeah, it would be the most other common vice but yeah. Sizzers you got to kind of probably all over the map.

[00:12:28] I've got a ton of them. Most recently, well so I've got some lunes scissors. Most recently I got a pair of arm courses that have been like and you know I haven't been too picky with scissors other than what I cut with them.

[00:12:43] You know, if I'm going to be cutting foam I have a pair of like crafts scissors or sewing scissors that use and if I'm getting like real picky with stuff I'm using the lune or

[00:12:56] I'm called the ones that you can tighten down and really nip it at the tip of the scissors. Right. Having a good tip, I think is a good key.

[00:13:08] I think people often don't, you know they don't think about it and they cut wire with the tip and it bends or especially those really fine tip or arrow points stuff. They're strong but they're not that strong to handle.

[00:13:21] And I've had problems where I've dropped them before and bent the tip and they don't work as good anymore. Yeah, I knew pair but yeah for the most part I'm using the lune stuff actually. And Bob and Wise what are you running now?

[00:13:36] I'm a big fan of the cheap bobbins. Yeah so not having like sharp edges is my pet pee or the PVC stuff. I would stay away from those if you're beginner.

[00:13:50] Sometimes I write for like two-tend in here or something like a heavier thread or GSP but the thing that gets me is just when you cut your thread with a bobbin. So a lot of times I have the cheapest like, I don't even dare a product, right?

[00:14:07] It sells a real cheap bobbin and I can use those for like a year or two. And then I have some nice rewards but I end up using the cheap ones. You've got to use to provide them palm tension, that's all the stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:25] There's some really cool products out there now like what's the one that you use. I'm trying to few, I mean the stonefoam or any of those kind of the clutch on the end.

[00:14:41] I tie a lot with a shmahan now which kind of has the clutch in the center. Which good and bad right my big potdog fingers at times I bump it loose and I thing up and clasper.

[00:14:53] But as far as the palm tension if you get used to it it's super effective. So I assume to the terrace have like a little rubber insert that goes down the barrel so that.

[00:15:03] Those don't have a rubber insert but they do have like the metal curl down on the end. Yeah, which I like and then I've got some that have like a ceramic tip as well that's real nice. But yeah the other ones that I use.

[00:15:19] I have some that are smaller the right bobbin. Right bobbin. I've got a lune bob in with the real long barrel. Yeah, for a tie streamers with that you know.

[00:15:32] Just having a little shorter bobbin I think I tie a lot of smaller flies with the shorter barrel on it and prefer that. Have you seen I don't know if you've seen if you've seen the new hair line foam like I get called the foam anizer thing.

[00:15:48] Yeah, I've got one. Oh cool. Got a hair line foam anizer I like it before that I had an antler that I had drilled a ton of holes in and I had all my stuff in and that was cool.

[00:16:00] But I think the foam anizer definitely has a lot more room for storage and yeah and for me I try to stay pretty portable. My wife and I move back and forth and split time between here and Cheyenne and being able to move my stuff is big thing.

[00:16:17] And I keep it all on our desk pretty much for the whole summer and having that foam anizer is kept it a lot more clean for me.

[00:16:25] Yeah, and that's something that I'm pretty keen on is organization and trying to keep clean and I think it's more productive and it's a big part of my time. Yeah, how do you run all your materials are you a rubber made guy or you?

[00:16:40] So I've got two rubber maids three rubber maids actually keep them on zip lock bags sorted sorted and labeled and yeah that's pretty much how I'm doing that.

[00:16:52] But I've got like a specific box of stuff that I'm using right now you know, a fall summer so it's like for all the nymphs were tying it's a pretty small amount of materials and dubbing and foam.

[00:17:06] I keep that out pretty much all the time. Yeah, so pick up her. It's like that. Yeah, ribbing all that stuff's out pretty much all the time. Sure. Sure Morgan loves that. Yeah. But it's all right. It's up to vacuum. Yeah, Christmas. Yeah.

[00:17:22] Crystal flash is always good for that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Anyway, I try to keep that stuff out most of the time. This stuff I'm using right away. Right. Right. Yeah. You sound like you're pretty organized with your rubber maids.

[00:17:37] I'm pretty organized in general. I think if you look at the back of my car and my flybox is it's pretty dull. Right. Right. Straight away from it too much. Are you loyal to any one hook brand or won the 10 degree of a tape towards over the others?

[00:17:54] Yeah. Currently, I've been tying on the uncleal. I tie a lot on the uncleal 105s which are the two extra. Yeah. I switched this year actually to that because I was been down a lot of hooks. I decided it wasn't going to tie on the one next anymore.

[00:18:10] Needed something stronger. So, made that switch. I think maybe you lose a little movement in that but been tying a lot of my nips on those 105s and then most of the stuff I'm tying on her. The uncleal stuff right there.

[00:18:26] Yeah. So, they use series stuff for like bang for the buck is pretty awesome. And again, being cost-effective trying to save some money and being cheap. Right. I think that's been good. You can get a pack of 50 for like 695 or something here at the shop.

[00:18:42] And that's the way I've been going. Yeah. So, cool. Yeah. Threadwise. I assume you're kind of all over depending on patterns there. I've been pretty specific to simplify lately because I can use that 12-hot 18-hot stuff. Pretty incredible strengthwise.

[00:19:01] Yeah. I've been using that. I've been using the waxed mostly the other one. I think they got the what is it spider. Spider wire? Spider wire. I've been using some of that for all of my nips I've basically been using simplify. Yeah.

[00:19:18] Just like the ability to something unique that I do is I always put three lip finishes on my flots. I never glue. I just prefer to for one lip finish to come off and trim it off and keep fishing it.

[00:19:32] A lot of guys will do the big horn slap, right? And try to clean their flies off and you'll lose a lip finish. Sure you start to tear apart. And I think that that's helped me not re-rig is much just keeping my flies on there. Sure.

[00:19:49] Rock and was it? Yeah. I thought that through. Although I think thread and variations of thread have been one of the bigger step forwards in the past five years. It seems like between your desk and stuff now and super fine GSP.

[00:20:07] Right? Some even fuzzy thread stuff that you can use for body types. It seems like the evolution and kind of ingenuity and thread is to me a little bit outpaste like some of the cooler new materials, right?

[00:20:22] Because it just doesn't seem like there's as many cool new materials that have been coming out. And some of it, like you can only do so much. Right? I mean there's obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's probably the most interesting thing about that.

[00:20:41] Like it's a little bit better term and it's a bit more dangerous. But generally it's just a remake of something else, right? It has been a huge improvement. It seems like threads have really come along way. Compared to what? Getting stronger and smaller.

[00:20:58] And that's probably just technology, but seems like I'm able to tie on, you know, the like maybe 30 to near is what that 12 watt is or something. Her 18-aut maybe, but you're able to tie on that, like it's 70, Danville's most

[00:21:13] sometimes and it's way smaller and you've hardly noticed the the whip finishes on the front when you look at my flies, you know? Right. Yeah, it's definitely been it's been good for my time and my flies look better. Yeah, yeah, it's a big part of it. Right.

[00:21:33] I was getting ready for trip perhaps. We were tying some junk today and at you know any time I tie a new pattern, it's always interesting like the first one I tie, I'm you know.

[00:21:43] And like this is just, she go in the trash can because there's always that little learning curve. It's just not quite right and I didn't learn how to put it together. But I was kind of unique.

[00:21:54] You need to keep the sequence of what you tie the materials on and some of those confusing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've been messing with that some of the drinks I've been tying. Like do I put the wally wing first or the post?

[00:22:06] Yeah, you know, and whatever but I get that for sure. And you've been it long enough now. You've probably seen the evolution of like I assume you were reading magazine articles and looking at books and yeah, so I used to collect the

[00:22:21] magazine articles and a three wing binder. And I would keep them and it was mostly tying stuff or I kept a lot of articles about habitats to fish. And this was kind of back when I was keeping that stuff, it was bass fishing mostly.

[00:22:39] And then I remember a musky article back in the day about I kept in the scouts time to the Buford stuff you know. But yeah, I definitely kept in touch with that and then it shifted for me to Instagram

[00:22:54] just keeping a collection of pictures that I find that like are creative or new ideas. And you see some of that stuff like I mean like some tail who does like the extremely clean dry flies. That's kind of a different world. Yeah. You know, it's really pretty art.

[00:23:14] No, yeah. Right. Big time. But definitely keep a collection of all of that and always keep it in my back pocket. Yeah. So in a way I feel like it's become easier for people to learn like YouTube is definitely

[00:23:28] changed that the fact that you can play and pause and tie a little segment and hit play again. Yeah, for me when I was guiding Missouri and fishing the white river a lot, it was Brian Wise and those are fly fish here. Yeah.

[00:23:47] But he does a lot of streamer videos and so I would sit and watch those and copy those and go out and fish them on the white and tannicale moan. Try to replicate the movement he was getting with a sinking line and stuff and yeah,

[00:24:01] YouTube was definitely a useful tool at that point in time. Another thing that I might mention to the FFI has a fly tying library, a flyfishers international and they've got a huge collection of videos from all over the world.

[00:24:19] And I think there's some some that are more influential than others like the Dave McFell stuff and watching all that. You know, I always watch that stuff or if I see a pattern I don't know how to tie I'm going to look up on YouTube generally. Yeah.

[00:24:35] Definitely definitely have seen a lot of that. I think it's easier for people to learn from those videos nowadays. I've watched some of yours as well and like the the McGurrayber stuff and definitely helps. Yeah, sure.

[00:24:51] I think it's just to me, for jealous of it in a sense. I mean, I use this so now. I think a lot of people kind of forget or don't realize maybe are intimidated. They think they kind of have to learn each fly.

[00:25:04] And a lot of fly tying is really like once you learn the process, you don't necessarily need to watch the step by step video. If you look at the fly, you can dissect what the materials are and exactly. Kind of put it together in your mind.

[00:25:18] But a lot of it's the same process and just a different sequence of steps or different materials. But usually it's materials for me, like no one wants something is, you know, I think for me watching your McGurrayber videos, what is this?

[00:25:34] William material made up, which I think is what a lot of people are curious about. And other stuff, you know, trying to get the right profile on a fly like maybe you've been to me through a wraps on or something.

[00:25:48] Or like the Darth Vader so I think I watched because they put the UV glue on before the water, you know, which is unique. So there's just like sequence stuff too. Yeah. You can learn from those videos. So like you mentioned profile a little bit.

[00:26:08] You thought last year like some of your mayhems and stuff had a really thing a two row bus to a profile. So yeah, two impact. So time to thick maybe too many thread wraps but specifically the Thorax material

[00:26:21] and then also putting the wing on it with the hackle fibers. Right. I think that makes a big difference like tying it correctly. I was using like peacock dubbing rather than just putting peacock to roll on it. Yeah.

[00:26:38] I think you get a different flasher sheen from that that's that they like. I mean peacock is like one of my favorite dirty water materials. Yeah. So tying it correctly, I think makes a big difference. Right. I'm getting a good thin profile on a lot of those bugs.

[00:26:55] What do you use in mayhems? Would you think that profile plays a bigger role than color? Oh, definitely. Yep. Yeah, definitely. So the profile of the bug, the shape is what they see more.

[00:27:09] I think if you think about Roy G. Biv, you know, what color is penetrating the water the most? It's actually purple. Right. I don't know why the purple bugs are in that. Right. So color is maybe less important than the shape and size. Size being the second.

[00:27:30] The shape, meaning profile, size, meaning like what size of hook you use and how you're tying that fly. Yeah. And I've also gone as far as to think that like a larger hook with a smaller fly tied on it. Well, maybe increase your hook up rate.

[00:27:47] That haven't totally figured that out yet. Right. So that size 20 on a 18, you know, share smaller stuff like that. Come on with stakes that you see like beginner tires make or or common things maybe that you did when you started that you now look back and go. Yeah.

[00:28:06] That wasn't quite right. So crowding the eye. Right. One of the things I did when I first learned was like went and got a bunch of stuff out of my mom's sewing kit. So I was like tying stuff with threads that were not tying threads.

[00:28:20] And if you put extra whip in a shon there, you were going over the eye of a hook or something. So yeah, minimizing thread reps and not crowding the eye are probably two big tips for beginners.

[00:28:34] And then doing maybe I think there's something you mentioned a long time ago when we sat down for that when you gave me some advice. Making sure you do a pinch grip and tying your material on where it needs to be.

[00:28:48] And doing a jam not correctly minimizing your thread reps when you tie it when you start your thread on the hook. Yeah. Some of those things that are pretty important but it could be it for looked. Right.

[00:28:59] So I think one of them that I routinely see like especially people trying to save money, I get it using, you know, do you care that you killed yourself? Yeah, you've killed but like to me the one place that is beyond frustrating in a place

[00:29:16] you shouldn't try to save money is thread. Yeah. Because crappy thread or the wrong thread can make the bug miserable. Yeah. Having a variety of thread is like a game changer when you kind of find the right one or one that you work well with. Yeah.

[00:29:31] You're not snapping all the time. That too. Yeah. Yeah. I think the smaller denier sizes help when you get more experienced. I think tying and small denier that covers your butt a lot. Right.

[00:29:45] You're able to tie a small profile fly that would have been way too big on a 70 near thread which you know it seems minimal but it does make a difference because we're talking about size 20 flies here, you know. Right. So anyway. Yeah.

[00:30:03] Phonwise or you, I mean obviously phon back you use in different stuff for you. Do you still use some old rainy's foam or your hairline foam guy or does it really matter much? I'll be a lobby foam guy kind of.

[00:30:16] Except for when I'm trying to tie with one millimeter foam, you know, I get some stuff from the shop here and tie with that two millimeter again trying to get stuff from the

[00:30:27] shop but if you're talking about like an RS2 post, I've got like the big white sheet from hairline and I'm cutting strips off of it. And actually I'm trying to make this square.

[00:30:39] I don't know if you look at the ones in the shop, they're all square so it's like 2 millimeter by 2 millimeter. Yeah. If you pay attention to that, I used to like on my main ham, start to cut them pretty

[00:30:52] wide as wide as possible to kind of put as much foam on the fly as I could because the whole point of that foam is like buoyancy right and trying to get your fly to move more so I always thought you know.

[00:31:07] The more foam I can put on here, the more buoyant it will be. Yeah. You know but yeah, just trying to tie with 2 millimeter foam on most of those. Cool. Nothing crazy.

[00:31:18] I was doing a new one today of getting ready for a trip so I was tying some milk fish flies. Yeah. And one of the prime milk fish flies kind of unique.

[00:31:26] These are dumbbell IRB chain but then they put a tail of foam off the back end basically do achieve neutral buoyancy. Right. So they want the head to ride down with some sparkle to look like a dafty cluster

[00:31:40] a little bit and then green Arctic Fox to look like a menoeeat. No to look like the milk fish are primarily eating like moss. Oh. Oh, okay. So the Arctic Fox like pulsates but then the idea of they make the foam pose super

[00:31:55] long and then once you get to where you're going, you set the fly end and basically trim the foam so that you get it to just barely sink like a floating piece of moss as the tides moving in around. Maybe that will work on the reef. Yeah.

[00:32:10] I thought it was kind of you know, you peaked my interest a little bit of like huh. Especially with carp and how they kind of filter food on the surface right? But I never really thought of like foam to get neutral buoyancy.

[00:32:22] I've always thought of foam like to present an emerging angle right or head up angle or make it float on the surface. I've also seen like when I fish for small mouth lot like the crawfish claws with foam

[00:32:36] and it pitches your fly up right and kind of like fighting off the fish a little bit. I've seen that too but yeah, the buoyancy factor of that is interesting for sure. Yeah. I think it could be used more stuff. Yeah.

[00:32:50] It's kind of just something I never really thought of now. It's got me thinking about like how they're also using it. Cut it off until yeah until you get there kind of decide what to do on it.

[00:33:00] And then they never really thought about like neutral buoyancy being different different locations because obviously on a lake versus salt water right? It's all water. Definitely a big change but interesting. Yeah. Something messed with social media where people can find you. Yeah, I got an Instagram. 8 penny 29.

[00:33:18] Let's me try to post picture of a fish every time I take a trip. So in the night I tied a little bit and post videos sometimes that but had a YouTube at one time no longer working with that much. But yeah, mainly Instagram.

[00:33:38] I'm going to just try to post and tag this shop as much as I can. Cool. And you can find me on there. 8 penny 29. Awesome. Thanks Adam. Appreciate joining us. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to The Ugly Bug Podcast.

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