Curtis Fleming of Fly Rod Chronicles

[00:00:01] Fly Shop, And Crazy Rainbow Fly Fishing. Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast. On today's episode we're going to be sitting down with Curtis Fleming, host of Fly Rod Chronicles to discuss how he got into the production site of Fly Fishing.

[00:00:26] What brought him on to our what brought him into Fly Fishing, as well as kind of the growth with his family and his daughters and the fun trips we've been able to have over the years.

[00:00:40] So let's take a quick minute and step away for a word from our sponsors, we'll be right back. The Ugly Bug Podcast is proudly sponsored by Fly Omen. Why Omen rooted fly fishing apparel and accessories, challenging the traditional mode, designed by anglers or anglers?

[00:00:59] Curtis Thanks for joining me. Thank you, Blake. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we've we've had a fun little week together. Super stoked to have you back and glad we could talk you into coming in and joining us here.

[00:01:11] You don't have to twist more than you get me back out of here. Yeah, sure listeners are interested in the whole group of questions but we'll just kind of start basic like first of all had you get into fishing?

[00:01:24] Was it a family thing or was it just you and your interest that kind of got you going initially?

[00:01:32] It's a family tradition, you grow up in West Virginia and it's either you know coal mining and hunting and fishing and I guess you know with me it was it was Bobber fishing and you know warm Duncan. Sure. But Fly Fish and was a little different.

[00:01:55] You know, I really didn't get into it until college and then after college. I was a teacher after college and I got to take my students in teaching. I got to take them fishing and that's really what got me into it. Yeah.

[00:02:16] And as far as how did the show come about, did you start that while you're still teaching or was it a you know a quit and a started whole new career? How did that all work together?

[00:02:27] Yeah, yeah so I was a teacher and I and you know I worked with I worked with troubled youth and and I got to take those kids teach I got to take them fly fishing and

[00:02:42] I got to venture into a little bit of gas and oil and it gave me a little extra money. And with that I always wanted to do a hunting fishing show.

[00:02:54] I just didn't know how to do it, you know and at that time I had a family, how to young family with what's the autumn and lichen and just didn't have the gumption and the balls to come home and say

[00:03:09] Shelly, I'm going to start a hunting fishing show you know and but. And and I just thought fly fishing always fascinated me and I didn't see a lot of fly fishing shows on networks and and of course you got to get sponsored right?

[00:03:31] Yep and how do you get sponsored you know with honey. There's a lot more money out there right and you got to figure out how to stay on TV it's expensive and and trying to figure it out.

[00:03:49] I wanted to come up with a concept that was different and you know.

[00:03:56] I didn't want it to be ego driven. I was not a great fly fisherman you know I got to be around some good people that were great fly fisherman and so I instantly I wanted to tell stories and.

[00:04:14] And I wanted my show to be different I didn't want it to be about Curtis for me. So I put together a pilot got to know some people at the sportsman channel sent a pilot in and then they said can you do 12 more shows just like that.

[00:04:33] At that point it's like what do you do with it right how do you get it sponsored right so then you got to go home and tell your wife will quit my job and go for it.

[00:04:45] Right and so at that point that that's where you become brave and say I'm going I'm going to quit my job and make a run for it.

[00:04:57] I had a three year plan of how I was going to do it and and and I'm just going to go for it.

[00:05:07] And you're now celebrating how many how many years so this is our our 21st season 21 season so you're filming with that be filming for 22 year yeah yeah so so so this would we just completed our 20th season.

[00:05:24] Okay when when we first did it like you know a season 13 episode and when we first the first four seasons we we filmed 26 episodes.

[00:05:38] And that's a lot of time away from the family a lot of time on road and and we just we just wanted to get out there and just put it put it out I didn't want to go back into a.

[00:05:51] And I'm not going to make the US USA fly fishing team is like that come on man I've fished with you man.

[00:06:13] I was not that guy and you know again and I'm not named drop and you know I had I had time to fish with people like left to create Bob clouds or I got to I got really lucky you know I got to go down in North Carolina fish with the North Carolina fly fishing team I got to go down and fish with you know like George Daniel and and Lansing again and see how those guys fish and I thought that's it's it's it's.

[00:06:42] That's it's it's not me but I'm I'm going to tell good stories and and I'm going to make it about the destinations I'm going to make it about the people I meet and and I'm just going to I'm just going to tell good stories and and I may never.

[00:07:02] I may never fish that well but but someone told me once about four five seasons into it and they said Curtis if you keep doing this eventually you might get good.

[00:07:15] I like that yeah yeah and I don't know you know every now and then I hear a God say wow man you present a good fly man you're good fishermen and I I shrug it off and and you know I think I was always the class clown and I always think that I tell good joke or I get laughed at.

[00:07:38] And and I really don't care what people think about my game because I always say I get to go and see great places and I don't care what anyone thinks about my double haul.

[00:07:51] I don't care if I ever learn how to spake ass as long as I can go to the say sheels as long as I can go to England as long as I can come out to Casper Wyoming as long as I can go to ugly bug as long as I can see crazy rainbow.

[00:08:06] I really don't care what people think about yeah well it's not really not any need to right yeah you got a proven track record yeah doing what you love to do that's I think one reason the show's done so darn well is that.

[00:08:19] Yeah you're passing comes through right it very much so and you know my business partner mind Ryan Harment told me once you know I said Ryan windy know that you made it you know kind of thing and he said when half the people love you and half people hate you and I said that will never happen Ryan I said because I'm not I'm not going to let people hate me and he's like oh do you have a lesson to learn.

[00:08:47] And I said why and he said you know this was back in like maybe 2006 or seven he said and social media really wasn't out there and he said you know you got to get your your name out there you got to get your company out there and.

[00:09:02] You got to use social media and he said man you're you're going to get beat up on social media yeah and.

[00:09:09] And I said I'm not going to like to happen and he said man do you have a lot to learn right and I said but I'm a nice guy and he said.

[00:09:17] He said man half the people's going to hate you have the people's going to love you and I don't know you know I remember and I'm not going mention a name but but it's a name that I'll never forget.

[00:09:29] I got a guy and I had a ho that said if you ever come out here and touch my fish the way you touch fish in West Virginia I'm going to shoot you with a 30 odd six and I thought God that's me.

[00:09:41] Yeah and and I thought you know I'm not trying to harm fish I'm a conservation as I'm trying to learn I'm trying to do the right thing and everything. And and I really have had then skin and I really have taken.

[00:09:58] I've taken to heart what people have said and an over social media to the point where you know I've hired out who does my social media because it.

[00:10:10] It has hurt feelings and I remember you and I've talked over the years to where at one point you told me that you just dropped social media.

[00:10:19] I'm still going to have it and and I got jealous as hell I was like man why is Blake not got social media and I got to have social media and I got to look at all the stuff.

[00:10:29] I'm not looking for sponsors though exactly and and and and my wife and my kids knows that retirement for me. We're going to have the biggest bonfire in West Virginia.

[00:10:45] You boys for wild means going to see the fire glowing because all my platforms from tick talk to Facebook to Twitter we're burning all of our social media. I'm not going to be a good person because I don't the meanness really does suck.

[00:11:04] It's always a weird thing to me too because you know person to person people would never say the shit that they say online right there's no accountability ever and you know.

[00:11:15] Yeah, that's one reason I made next it right I did feel like it was improving my life I was well step away from it but I see the value in it right you and I just left the restaurant right yeah what happened.

[00:11:27] Go ahead we've got people they were stoked to see us yeah. Yeah, they told some crazy stories years ago. Thank you for going back.

[00:11:39] Yeah, but that's all right yeah it was always good to see people it's good to connect with people and I think that's one plus to social media and that's an angle that I miss out on but.

[00:11:50] And I'm a couple miles a couple thousand miles from home and and the guy comes up to me and says you know yeah and follow me follow in your whole career yeah he's like I just saw you in the governor from West Virginia.

[00:12:05] And you know I love your show I love what you do I love what you stand for and those kind of things makes the one or two haters go.

[00:12:18] Yeah, right for sure yeah yeah yeah yeah as a people you'd much rather have right right half the time I think the haters is just a jealousy sort of thing usually right but we can we can deal with that.

[00:12:30] Yeah yeah big deal yeah big deal so so in all of your travels I guess if we were to try to break it down which is a nearly impossible thing to do but break it down as far as.

[00:12:46] I guess you're in a unique situation that your family and I've been fortunate enough to be introduced to your family your lovely family years ago and watch the girls grow up and.

[00:12:58] And you know feel like I've been a small part of it but somewhat like you know it's cool to see him from time to time and see how they've you know evolved through careers and marriage and all this sort of stuff is.

[00:13:11] It's really unique but your unique in the sense that your family has been so involved right in part of the story and and really part of part of your path.

[00:13:21] You know it wasn't just you going on cool destinations you really took the time to include the girls and make them part of it.

[00:13:29] A few do you have a few of those that really stick out in your mind that you know the girls were able to take part in with you. Yeah yeah you know and just as of lately so last two years both girls have kind of.

[00:13:47] Crossed over that rainbow as of you know both got married.

[00:13:52] You know I think as as a male and ego we all want sons right you know and and want those man God gifted me with two amazing girls and it's it's crazy I got I got two fly fisherman hunter girls that that I you know I always challenged.

[00:14:16] I was that dated them like you know you can get your butts whip by these two girls you know you got a lot to live up to you know with these two girls because they fish they hunt and.

[00:14:30] You know with those girls you know like in you know she met Dylan and got married in college and you know Dylan's a hunter fisherman and and like in when on to be a.

[00:14:42] Kind of dabbled with I want to take over dad show you know she's seen that it's more than just fishing right yeah and autumn you know she just got married to Evan couple months ago and and. You know autumn just come a doctor pharmacy and and and now.

[00:15:09] You know she should be out here tomorrow fishing with us and and I got to see those girls grow up on the show and one of the first shows we did was out in Wyoming at the spotted horse ranch down outside of Jackson Hole and and they never really.

[00:15:29] Even touched a fly rod at that point you know and we were joking around today about how you know they didn't need to put lip balm on her under lips you know they come out here to the west and.

[00:15:42] And got to discover that part of it so you know Wyoming was one of the first shows that they got to be on you know and then just as a last week or a couple months ago.

[00:15:55] Autumn chose to get married in West Virginia at one of our favorite places at Harman's cabins you know and and she had her her 13th birthday party at Harman's and then she chose.

[00:16:08] And then she chose to get married that's the place that she wanted to get married you know and then Evan proudly showed you today at dinner. She had seven minutes in between.

[00:16:22] And then she chose those seven minutes in her wedding gown to go down to the river and land a fish and she got a rainbow trout and her wedding gown and.

[00:16:36] And then I had set to stage that I'll catch the fish and wedding and Evan you'll net to fish for me so so I think Evan I think Evan knows. He knows what his life's gonna be like for us right.

[00:16:52] And you and I would have done the same thing right yeah so you know it kind of started there with the girls like I said at Harman's and then it started out in Wyoming I've gotten to take them to Belize you know I got to take autumn over to the say shells you know that's like a bucket list trip for any other straight anywhere.

[00:17:15] Yeah yeah I've gotten to take them to Alamara you know I've gotten to take them.

[00:17:21] You know our good friends the the little leaves you know I got to take them to the to shoots you know and I think I think the little least might be like the first. Native Americans husband wife.

[00:17:37] Gods you know and I got to take them out there learning the salmon fly hatch and both of them got to experience that hatch and catch fish on the salmon fly. Yeah and you know the the the list goes on so experience in that with a family.

[00:17:55] Is it is just so cool and and and to do it this long I don't know how much longer I get to do it it's sponsored driven but every day I thank God and I just I'm just blessed to be able to do it you know yeah for sure yeah.

[00:18:17] Sure current kind of current sponsors I guess let's just go quick quick gear equipment list or something.

[00:18:24] I know you're a hatch guy yeah we rigged up but if you knew for our lines on some hatch wheels today and yeah those ones didn't have have lines on me yet so I assume they're on the newer side of things that looks pretty shiny and new.

[00:18:38] Yeah great shape and but obviously a bad ass real company makes great products really enjoy beyond hatch. Yeah and you know hatch also is a family a family.

[00:18:54] I mean and again I think a lot of the blifishing industry is kind of family driven if you kind of look at it you know and you know through COVID and you know you know you're a lot of the way to get to know you.

[00:19:15] And like you can maybe help me through this they kind of backed off a little bit with their production and and here's the deal. I think a lot of flyfishing shows and there's a reason why there's not a lot of flyfishing shows.

[00:19:28] You know there's not a lot of money out there in marketing for flyfishing right. Business I've got to figure another way to skin it and with hatch you know it's a father of some daughters and and even though they couldn't pony up or sponsor during COVID.

[00:19:51] I just love the product so I kept them aboard and during that time you know Adam Ashcraft reached out to me and he's like man I love how you keep you know hashtag and I'm going to help you out.

[00:20:06] So that's just and that's a good example and thank you for bringing them up you know like for you know who's been good to us are good friend. You know back home at that toothman Ford who's been really good to us you know those kind of things.

[00:20:22] You know state of West Virginia when when I first started my show I was trying to figure out like how you know how how has shows made it over the years and and when I watched an outdoor show that I always watched it was wild wild world of sports okay.

[00:20:44] And it was mutual of Omaha presented wide-world sports right there were so many people that thought that show the name of it was mutual of Omaha will mutual of Omaha and I know a lot of kids today is like well what was mutual of Omaha is an insurance company right.

[00:21:02] So that's a classic way of marketing and when I went to West Virginia at the beginning of my show and I asked them the sponsor them and my good friend at the time now it's Senator Manchin and who knows what's going to happen with politics now and I hate to get into the politics game but he was a governor at that time and I said I said governor will you sponsor my show because I want to market my show.

[00:21:31] Wild wonderful West Virginia presents flora flora chronicles and he said no and I was just like oh the bottoms dropped out of this and he said well you have not proved yourself yet.

[00:21:44] And I said well how do I prove myself how do I get to send kicked off and he said you got to prove yourself so.

[00:21:50] I had to go out and prove myself right yeah but I needed that I needed that presenting sponsor and so I had to go out and prove myself.

[00:22:01] Yeah and that's what I did and I'm very fortunate right now and have been for West Virginia and you know I still think West Virginia you know we only have 1.8 million people in our state.

[00:22:16] And the tourism is huge and you and I talked today about the new river the golly and how many people come there for tourism.

[00:22:25] And they get it they get why I promote flot fishing and tourism so you know West Virginia has been big at that part of it and you know just little things like you know right here in your backyard you got Matt Castle here like with boxes you know.

[00:22:43] And I'm sure these little sponsors that I can call Matt and say hey we got a kids event here in town or whatever I want to give out some boxes and I'm sure he's when you do events.

[00:22:55] You know he's always one of the first to help yeah so you know when you look at sponsorships.

[00:23:02] For money to people that just want to help just want to do things it's it's why I don't sleep at night I probably should get ambient as a sponsor right it's probably yeah probably it is interesting to me how.

[00:23:19] And I'm sure some viewers don't know but it seems you know big business is definitely creeping its way into fly fishing more and more right hedge fund groups big ownership groups are buying up some of these smaller companies and you can't.

[00:23:34] Be upset at a smaller company for making a smart financial decision right but it has it has trended that way more and more right and. I don't know that it's a negative yet but it's one of those things when I look forward I worry about it becoming.

[00:23:52] Kind of that family of fly fishing right the small macassal types or you know a family business thing where it's just no longer going to be the case and it's now going to be.

[00:24:03] I'm a major corporation running all these little mom and pop shops and put them on putting them under one roof it scares me a little bit but.

[00:24:12] But then I kind of also take a step back and I'm like well yeah but then there's eight new companies I know of that are you know sliding in there and they're the cool little.

[00:24:21] Local community company that's grassroots and growing and you know some maybe it's just a reason revolving door but I. It kind of concerns me a little bit when I when I think about some of these big conglomerates.

[00:24:34] Yeah and I mean just like going down the river with you and and dust and you know I just I just kind of take it all in and then I look over and hear you guys are rowing about.

[00:24:47] And I look over and it's saw your ors yeah you know who's who.

[00:24:52] They look at me as well I'm not running a boat but Curtis is in the boat and saw your ors has been around since what like 1967 yeah and they get it they get that people that are watching our show and I mean you know now we're.

[00:25:11] You know we're on the Discovery Channel we're on the pursuit channel while TV and all these you know different digital components and YouTube and so.

[00:25:22] They get advertising yeah so that you know so we've formed a partnership and and you know we've partnered up with them you've used them for how long now.

[00:25:37] Twenty twenty four years yeah yeah yeah I don't think that sell them in the store I don't think there's a better.

[00:25:43] Better brand on the market right yeah great and and rate product and just like you know ugly bug flash out it's like why would you advertise with flat rock chronicles crazy rainbow. I mean why would the state of Wyoming or the CVB of Casper.

[00:26:14] Well I mean you get it you get the eyes that are on our show right number or numbers to our cry so I'm a production guy and it's like.

[00:26:24] Yeah the reach is big enough it brings enough revenue in it makes sense for me to try to get you guys back as often as I can. Yeah and and Blake I'm not kidding you when I hear that you know.

[00:26:37] Coach Randy Maysey from WVU comes to fish with you right I hear that that misdemeasors from Georgia I get little things what somebody just out of the blues like hey a watch show.

[00:26:53] And I went out and fished at crazy rainbow or hey I watched your show and took a group of guys and you know and this was so cool how we got to break it up and you know just people that's been good to me and I got to bring a couple groups out here.

[00:27:12] That makes me feel so good that we're able to do those kind of things.

[00:27:18] Yeah that that's how it should work makes me feel good do burner yeah absolutely no it's been it it's been a great asset for us and yeah I want to thank you for that and thank you for.

[00:27:29] Obviously you know in a small way let me become you know part of the show part of your life part of your kids lives right it's and hopefully you know as we move forward I mean got to meet some really cool buddies.

[00:27:42] Yeah this morning we were already they were already talking about come back again right and you know obviously for my own some marketing thing too right yeah it's always easiest to return the the guests that you've had and bring in them back again.

[00:27:55] Is great but what we sure appreciate you know the marketing help that you and your team have landed our way and helped us achieve so.

[00:28:05] Yeah I just want to thank you for that again and Blake what's what's so great about what you guys do and and you know. I got to bring a congressman and a wife here the years back I got to bring the former NRA president and his wife here.

[00:28:24] And you know and and just a little while ago you know it's text and certain Nick Vowdo and he's an addict so bad he just lives to fly fish is at any time I can text.

[00:28:40] Or I can call or talk to anyone of my friends at any level novice beginner expert fly fisherman you have so many different waters someone that's never picked up a fly rod somebody that's only USA fly fisherman fishing team and say.

[00:29:01] Come from all street with your three piece soup. And show up to fly shop they will put you in Sims waiters whatever waiters what tell them what size shoes you wear.

[00:29:17] They will outfit you they will put you they'll even put you through a psychological test and say you got you got dust and who will preach the gospel to you.

[00:29:29] You got Cody who will preach the non gospel to you and take you down a demon list of all the bugs in the Latin names and stop and take get you the best burrito and and our cover right.

[00:29:45] You got every personality of everything you want fast water you want to nymph fish you want a dry fly fish you want to go to the big horn you want to go you guys provide everything that any fly fisherman and I just saw high school classmate that said she wanted experience what Yellowstone provides on on TV.

[00:30:08] The the ranch life or whatever you guys can provide anything that anyone wants to play.

[00:30:17] They want to be a fly fisherman if they want to go to their their 10th year classroom union and say I want to hold a fish that looks like this that's what you guys can do.

[00:30:27] You try you don't try you do it appreciate it and that's what I love because I get everything from.

[00:30:36] My husband's a fly fisherman I want to buy him a beginning outfit at my husband once a fly box my husband needs a new fly line my girlfriend just got into this she needs pink waiters might.

[00:30:50] Call ugly bug flash off appreciate that and and that for me it takes a lot of heat off of me because I can say call black jacks and he can hook you.

[00:30:58] We can come up yeah we try to learn this to come up for yeah yeah so coming shows what you got coming out.

[00:31:05] Yeah so so what well I was here I got a text and and you know everybody ask me all the time what your bucket list trip you know and all that kind of stuff and for me.

[00:31:17] Man God's been so good to me honest goodness if tomorrow I get dealt a bad card I can go out and say thank you thank you I've seen it.

[00:31:30] You know I didn't get to go to come chock and you know what Brittany Griner has showed me I don't want to see Russia food and keep it I don't want to go see your ass man keep it over there I'm done I don't want to see come jockey.

[00:31:48] I got it I got a message that that looks like we're gonna go over to Iceland I got it got a good friend who said let's make it happen I'd like to go see play with some of those sea round.

[00:32:00] I think I'm going in October. Yeah so I'm gonna work on that as soon as I go home we got some West Virginia shows I'm really looking forward to.

[00:32:12] Our department our division and natural resources is amazing to work with and every day I get to get to work with them as a gift so we're gonna go home finish up some shows with them and something that I'm really jacked up about.

[00:32:33] But we're winding up our 21st season and then as the holidays will blink our eyes I get to be that kid that says what is 13 shows that I get to do for our 22nd season and I'm gonna be like alright Blake.

[00:32:54] What have we not done I mean you took me to a place today that I got to say alright Blake here you take the fly rod and we're going dry fly fish and you got to show me your magic which was so cool.

[00:33:09] Got my ass kicked for a bit but you figured it out and that's what's great about fly fishing. It's a puzzle and you figured it out and you know what I guarantee if we play in something next year.

[00:33:23] It's going to take us all but about 10 minutes to figure out something that we've not done yet. Yeah, we got the carp fish. Yeah we need to do that again at some point too.

[00:33:34] I'm thinking about it yeah yeah so awesome yeah well thanks Curtis appreciate you very much man. Appreciate you look forward to the next few days your daughter's coming to town she's bringing some friends we're gonna.

[00:33:48] Show them a good time and they have look forward to the rest of the week.

[00:33:53] Let me give you one more example of how you guys accommodate my my daughter is coming with my daughter and my son and all is coming with six of their friends and we just found out last night that one of the friends is has just become pregnant and was like.

[00:34:13] She can't have sandwiches lunch me lunch meat. You never heard of that I guess is processed food yeah and Blake's like no problem.

[00:34:26] I mean well that's not just me that's a lot of good people behind me and good staff like Lori that makes it happen right but doesn't miss a beat and I want to close all one thing.

[00:34:38] Lori's amazing all your staff you're your staff it it's not a bunch of college kids that are looking for summer jobs. Your staff are our our professionals and career people that work their tells off.

[00:34:55] They they there are people that work for your clients they their hearts are totally into this.

[00:35:04] Yeah. It's taking a long time to build that sort of team but I take a lot of pride that I've been able to find them at this point it's stay out of their way and let them do their thing.

[00:35:14] Yeah, yeah it's when I can talk top shop you you have built you have built an empire it's amazing what you've done awesome thank you so much appreciate you. Thank you.

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