Carving a Spot in the Fly Fishing Industry with CiCi Oliver

[00:00:04] Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast, a production of The Ugly Bug Fly Shop and Crazy Rainbow Fly Fishing Welcome to The Ugly Bug Podcast. Today we sit down with Ceci Oliver, talk about how Ceci carved out a niche within the Fly Fishing Industry as a young lady

[00:00:23] I think you really enjoy the episode. First let's step away and hear a word from our sponsor The Ugly Bug Podcast is proudly sponsored by Fly Omen, Why Omen Rewded Fly Fishing a Parallel and Accessories, challenging the traditional move, designed by English or English

[00:00:47] So, see how are you? Hey Blake, how are you? Good. Good. Thanks for joining me tonight Of course, wouldn't want to be anywhere else I think we've probably got a few people that will interest it in

[00:01:00] Young lady like yourself and fly fishing and how you got in fly fishing but Easiest way to might, you know, to explain it might be kind of start from the beginning like where'd you go to school?

[00:01:12] Let's start there. Where are you from? I'm from Hay Small Town right outside of Omaha, Nebraska called Valley Nebraska Population about 3400 on a good day Just a little small town. I went to high school and even smaller town about 30 minutes away from Valley called Arlington High School

[00:01:32] And yeah, that was that was the come up lived in Valley Small town Nebraska gal nothing crazy And lived on water got into fishing then her Yeah, so I grew up on a lake and so my brother and I

[00:01:46] We were spin fishing men. We are really young. We love to go outside catch some large amount of bass We had strippers in our lake, catfish, kind of everything you could think of on that side of things

[00:01:58] But yeah, that's where the love really started for fishing in general And then we had done that so much my dad had gone in a couple of guided trips just for work purposes And he bought us the world's shittiest little cabella rod and me with a you know

[00:02:14] Run some poppers over the lake and that's kind of the my first introduction and fly fishing Cool just bass ended with a sunfish and some some fish some crappy walleye, you know

[00:02:26] All the fun species everything that fights a little bit so we are definitely pretty enamored with that That was a huge part of our upbringing

[00:02:34] And you mom fished as well or just your dad or it was kind of a whole family thing my mom grew up in Colorado So she's a she's a farm girl pretty out dorsy girl my dad grew up in Nebraska

[00:02:46] But that was definitely something we always shared as a family A skating home from school parents getting home from work. It was just kind of our typical M.O. weed

[00:02:56] Though the rods out for a little bit right before dinner and catch a couple fish and that was just how we spent our time And then from so high school you're interested in it from high school where we off to the end or

[00:03:09] Yeah, so in high school I think that was when I first started to realize obviously when you're going through high school They try to get you to pick your major in college and I just couldn't really think of anything else that I enjoyed

[00:03:22] I really cared enough to study but I had the opportunity to go to college So I really started to seriously look for Schools and mountain towns that had Tried streams there and I would be able to fish and more importantly really started to look for colleges that offered

[00:03:39] Environmental majors and something that I can emphasize and fisheries with so that was my main goal when it came to picking a college Sure, so that landed you and Utah Yeah, by ended up going Utah State University

[00:03:50] They had a really cool outdoors program there and the Logan River was right off of campus And so I knew that it was pretty accessible visited there once and that was that was a school moved out that next next year Awesome and claimed

[00:04:06] Degree wise like right out of the gate or did you just do general study stuff early on or yeah right out of the gate What's pretty cool about Utah State is you can go into a very broad environmental degree

[00:04:16] It's called environmental studies and from there you can kind of Emphasize and something that you care about the most so I really ended up taking a lot of fishing courses A lot of environmental interpretation That was where I learned how to start tying flies

[00:04:30] I took fly tying for my PE credits, rod building for my PE credits We even had a fly fishing class you could take for PE so that was when I really first started to dip my toe into the role of fly fishing was Utah State

[00:04:44] And I think huge part of choosing Utah State obviously was proximity to the river the degree that I wanted But for anyone that's looked for colleges and mountain towns

[00:04:56] I mean it's not cheap you can you can get in really deep going out of state and trying to go to a school that was in the mountains So I think Utah State stood out to me the most because they have what's called concurrent residency

[00:05:10] That was kind of the first thing I learned and they'll allow you to attend school year first year and gain your residency And then switch you to an in-state student from there. So that was kind of my first

[00:05:21] My first money move there that I knew where I wanted to be knew I probably couldn't afford it And so that was a huge part of choosing Utah State was the residency purposes See, we were able to go to school full time and then

[00:05:35] Is that the whole state of Utah or just I need diversity. Yeah, just Utah State was that one so the you they don't do concurrent residency I looked at a few out of state colleges

[00:05:47] Gonzaga in Washington I was really interested in I looked at a couple Colorado schools and then I was interested in the University of Minnesota as well Just they had a bunch of lakes there I heard that the fishing out there was cool

[00:06:01] So definitely looked into that but all of those schools they don't do a concurrent residency So you can't be enrolled in a university you can even go to a JuCo to gain your residency prior to going to the university

[00:06:14] So it adds up pretty quick without a state tuition for sure When you're doing the concurrent deal, did you have to I assume you'd then change residency from the brass to Utah

[00:06:27] So was it a full year or was it just one it was a full year so you basically a year and well I guess It guess it would just be go early summer to early summer, right? So yeah, so

[00:06:41] Your sophomore year you were basically a resident of the beginning of my sophomore year as a resident of Utah and The process was a little goofy in some ways so you have to be there for I believe those 360 calendar days any year

[00:06:57] So they would give you a little bit of leeway to go back for holidays But outside of that they're pretty strict on it. Yeah, you have to turn in your credit card statements You have to go independent from your parents on your taxes

[00:07:10] You have to be registered to vote You have to be working a job that your paying taxes in Utah physical address there no physical address tight anywhere else

[00:07:20] So it is kind of a strict process, but definitely worth it to pay in state tuition and then out of state college, you know

[00:07:26] Any more that's probably a what 12 to 13 thousand dollar discount for sure? Absolutely. I think it went from 30,000 year out of state to 6,000 in state the next year So definitely makes it work. Yeah, yeah, for sure So do you fish a bunch while you were in college?

[00:07:45] Yeah, I really enjoyed fishing and college that was really the first time I had ever met anyone else that knew how to fly fish

[00:07:51] And I think that was a huge reason for wanting to go to college in a mountain town or an Italian that had sort of some sort of fishing scene is

[00:07:59] I just never really knew anyone else that did it. I didn't have anyone to ask questions to or help navigate in general

[00:08:07] And so as soon as I got to Utah state, I was pretty hungry. I started it, you know, I would get on the old tender and swipe right on every fishing picture

[00:08:16] I saw and yeah, just picked the brains of the boys that had fish that river before and then go out and do it myself and on in the next kind of thing

[00:08:27] The local fly shop there that you'd hang out at or get some advice from or one primarily visited Yeah, so definitely, I mean there's not really a fly shop in Logan but there's rivers wild fly tying operation and that's who

[00:08:41] We tied for class just the peacourses I would take we would tie over rivers wild and so they were always super helpful always had flies on hand

[00:08:51] We always tied patterns that were pretty specific to the Logan and so I think they were a huge a huge help as well That was kind of my main point of contact when I first got there cool and then

[00:09:02] Did you go back like freshman to sophomore year, did you return back to Nebraska for the summers or did you stick around there? Yeah, so for that first summer I stuck around for those residency purposes

[00:09:13] I had worked at a soda shop which is a pretty Utah unique place to be But yeah, so I slaying some sodas for that summer but it was about that same year that I moved to Utah

[00:09:28] I fished with a guide named Ben Diamond down in Heber City, Utah He's owner fish headfly shop and that was kind of the first person I ever met that was willing to give me a little bit of a break

[00:09:41] It allowed me to have a little bit insight and so it kind of started. I was He allowed me to kind of help run his social media So from rivers wild Ben was definitely the next big connection that I made and I've always enjoyed Ben

[00:09:56] I saw him and I have TD this last year in Salt Lake, you know always fun to run into old friends But that was really my first experience of working in any sort of fly shop specific setting would have been with him

[00:10:10] And so if we move on like sophomore to junior year junior to senior year You're obviously still fishing when you can. Yeah, absolutely so summer employment then Yeah, absolutely so I have to give a lot of credit to my older brother Chase

[00:10:28] Like I said we come from a pretty small town not a lot of people ever leave and get out and My brother he found a website called coolworks.com And on that website you can find a lot of summer contracts and so my brother first

[00:10:43] His first couple years of college he worked and lived in Glacier National Park he worked for the Conservancy out there And you know, I think it always peaked my interest

[00:10:53] I just didn't quite know how to do it but Chase really laid that foundation and so I followed on that same path So sophomore to junior year I got on cool works as well And I think it was definitely at that point I started to realize that

[00:11:08] I didn't really have the experience to walk into a fly shop and ask for a job I didn't really have the baseline knowledge other than what I was receiving through my education And so I thought the next best thing I could do would feed to

[00:11:22] Spike right keep swiping right After that fell through You know, I just thought I would try to end up with a cool job in the outdoor industry in general

[00:11:33] And I think definitely a new Tyler that and I found this in Wyoming and pretty much anywhere I've traveled in the West is You know, a lot of people have seasonal sports and so I knew if I could get a job that involved the outdoors

[00:11:47] I would meet people that were involved in those seasonal sports and fly fishing being one of them So I also got on cool works. I found a job as a zip line to a guide and park city Utah And so kind of the cool thing about that website

[00:12:02] And something I get asked about a lot is like how do you afford to live in these places and take these jobs and short answer as you can't

[00:12:10] But you can you can take a summer contract and when you find contracts like that a lot of them will provide housing Or at least a housing stipend and provide a food stipend Even rides to and from to get to work

[00:12:24] You work with a lot of people that are on J1, JIVs And so you get to work with a lot of people from around the world that have came in to do the same job

[00:12:33] So I spent that next summer working as a zip line to a guide and park city living down there Um, we're talking about 60 hours a week and you know not making much but loving every minute of it

[00:12:45] And I definitely found I was looking for I found a lot of people that fly fish to new the area well And so I think that was definitely the first summer

[00:12:52] I felt like I had my feet underneath me and was learning a lot more and was gaining the confidence to then go and end the job So do you guys just sneak out after work and fish a little bit?

[00:13:03] Yeah, absolutely, you know met some kids that had some private property we could go fish and Really just started to chat with a lot of people that knew so much and knew a bunch about fly tying And so just kind of spent that summer

[00:13:16] Is it blind to a guiding and being a sponge as much as I could and listening to whatever advice people would give me around me that was yeah, that was a pretty formative summer Yeah, so we'll keep walking forward Yeah, so then I go back to school

[00:13:33] And then kind of decided of a twisted turn of events my brother had spent that time in Montana And he applied for a job that placed him in Casper and as I was living in Utah

[00:13:44] You know it was the North Plat that was talked about it was always talked about coming up here and fishing up here So definitely peak my interest and my brother moved out here before I ever had an inkling out ever work for the ugly bug and crazy rainbow

[00:13:59] We took a guided trip out here and I think that was obviously the first time I was like oh shit Like this is the mecca. This is what people talk about you know and

[00:14:10] You know did that flow trip got some amazing fish and I was just so enamored with everything that was offered up this way I've just never seen trout of that size. I've never seen trout fight like that I've never seen a technical river as such

[00:14:25] I had never seen guides that rode their asses off like they did appear through wind rain snow You know it was the wild west to me and I was really intrigued by that and I met a nice lady who runs our lodge right now

[00:14:40] Miss Lori and she told me that she had a daughter named Addy who is a guide And I think right then and there kind of hit the ground running I think I asked Lori for Addy's number

[00:14:52] And texted Addy right off the bat she gave me a text back And then really from there I started doing all the research that I could about being up here and obviously stalked you Obviously stalked Addy a bunch and

[00:15:06] I decided that I wanted to work here. I was pretty dead set on that and I think that was in 2019 Yeah, around there and So I came back and I booked a full day float guide requested Addy on it to ensure that I could

[00:15:22] Spend a full day with Addy and I was pretty transparent right when I got on the boat I told her I was here for a job. I wanted to fish but I wanted to come work here

[00:15:32] And yeah, we fish that day, Addy and I hit it off and I think even more so at that point I was just I don't think I've ever been more driven to want to work somewhere and live somewhere And you know seeing an operation as such once again

[00:15:45] I never imagined would be for seasons down the road at this point But you know it was a really cool experience. I thought Addy was badass and thought everyone that worked there was badass

[00:15:56] And that was my goal. I have my eyes set on it for sure. Cool. Yeah, she is that. Yeah I remember her coming back and like telling me you know pretty quickly You won't believe why fish with and yeah, I'm just blinded it

[00:16:10] I don't think it was long after that. I gave you a ring. Yeah, yeah Kind of cut your by surprise when I just called you but yeah, yeah, so if like called me kind of out of the blue

[00:16:22] I had just gotten back from class that day and I think you shot me a text first that we are going to interview And I was shooting my pants because a day before that I had boxed out my hair pink I was like fuck

[00:16:34] Okay, I was like this dude's gonna try to face time me or something I'm gonna have pink hair. He's gonna think I'm fucking crazy So I vividly remember in my apartment with my roommates We were trying to tuck it behind my ears and put it head over

[00:16:48] So that it didn't look like I had no hair But you can really see that had pink hair But then thank the Lord above it ended up being a phone call instead of a face time So yeah, that was that's a pretty formative memory Yeah, and mine but

[00:17:04] And then when you first showed up here like Did it I mean when you came and started working was it a shocker as to like the scope of what we do or scope of the business or Oh, absolutely

[00:17:18] Yeah, it was pretty crazy. Well, I think the first crazy part of it is you know after I think we may be talked in January or December And then it was maybe two months later that COVID hit and woke up one morning

[00:17:32] All classes are online and I had lived in housing that was so close to campus that pretty much we were told hey He got a buggy out of here. We're shutting everything down

[00:17:43] And so I was just shit and bricks at that point because I had you know I felt so close And I was like oh my gosh, like I'm not gonna be able to do this anymore So I packed up and I went I moved home to Nebraska

[00:17:56] Couldn't stay at school started doing the online school thing there and then in March I got a phone call from Addy again, and she said hey if you want to come work you got to come now Said perfect. I woke up the next morning flew back to Utah

[00:18:12] Packed up my shit for my apartment drove right up here and I think I started the next day Like I said my brother was living here at the time so he let me couch there for that first summer and

[00:18:23] It definitely was a shock. I mean, I think I didn't really have a scope of what the fly fishing industry was growing up in Nebraska Once again, I just didn't know I didn't even really know people that left the state let alone fly fish store or had

[00:18:40] You know kind of any sort of mountain out door activity I just had never met people like that And so I think that I the first show shock I had when I started working there was I realized you know what's going on here is an operation

[00:18:54] Like it's not a dick around Any sort of job like that, you know, there's a lot of moving parts and there's a lot of people that care about what they do And I think that was kind of my first Shock that I realized that you know

[00:19:10] Fife is sheing especially the inner workings of a shop and a guide service. I'm much more intricate than it looks like from the From the outside world, it's not just taking phone calls and bullshitting it's a lot more that goes into it

[00:19:23] Yeah, there's no business behind it right for sure At times it's pretty hectic and busy and other times it's kind of slow and we can have fun but Yeah, hectic and busy as much as we can For sure, I normally stay in that way Yeah, yeah, and so

[00:19:41] I mean obviously you started fishing more and more Um, obviously being here and The brother fish is a tons of who you were hanging with with fish and yeah, I was with a pretty fishy crew

[00:19:53] Yeah, kind of around in the same MMO of seeing what free float trips I could get off the old and there Yeah, you know, seeing when I could do there But yeah, I mean I think the first thing that really surprised me is

[00:20:06] Once again not quite having a scope of Fife fishing I didn't really understand that you could work in Fife fishing without sitting on a drift boat And I think that that's what I was always pretty nervous about

[00:20:17] So that maybe didn't have the size or the stature to do that And so I felt like it was pretty impossible to edge my way in To things but very quickly I realized that this was a job I could choose as a career path

[00:20:32] You know, it didn't have to be behind a boat and that I could still have a really fulfilling position And do some fulfilling work without our own clients on the river And I think that was kind of a really eye opening thing for me is that you know

[00:20:47] I found a lot of peace and a lot of enjoyment in my job It's crazy it's hectic sometimes, you know, meet some interesting people Run around some funny folk but I think that was another really eye opening part is

[00:21:00] You know, breaking into the industry always seemed so unobtainable But that was when I first realized that I could, you know, find my niche and find my spot in it And get some comfort out of that so that first year was also crazy formative

[00:21:15] Definitely went from a really good blakes, rods and rills wrong, putting a nice little Winston in the fan You know, a lot of mishaps that first year asking questions that were probably the dumbest questions ever

[00:21:29] I mean obviously fish in the Logan it's just a little tiny tribute area It's nothing crazy, throw purple haze on there and you just got to get the damn thing in the water and you'll catch something You know working on a more technical river

[00:21:40] with more diverse entomology and really having to focus on flies and depth and weight All of those intricacies where things I had never really learned before And so I think once again that was a crazy formative time for me

[00:21:57] I was able to sit and bullshit with you in your office You know convince guys to grab a beer with me and chat fishing and convince guys to get me on a drift boat

[00:22:06] So that I could work on my cast and see what they were seeing you know I also spent that time as a sponge as well. I had so much to learn and I didn't even know it at the time

[00:22:16] But I mean looking back there's I even laughed in myself sometimes just You know put in like fucking gank on leeches and shit, you know But it's always a weird time, you know when you someone that's running a shop or owning a shop

[00:22:32] It's always a weird you know often in fly fishing there's a weird scope of And the winter months you're slow enough. You really don't need all that much help

[00:22:41] Right then seasonally you bring in a bunch of seasonal help, but then you start getting so busy that you really don't have time to like Mentor educate or train the way you would like to

[00:22:53] But and it's really just because it's a light switch right like season starts it's go And then so who are you know like myself my schedule gets active enough that's times you wouldn't see me for a week or ten days I'd show back up and you know

[00:23:11] It's kind of tough to train and mentor someone in a sense just You kind of have to be a quick learner and learn by watching and paying attention to other people and figure it out that way Jump into it for sure. I think that like a crazy helpful

[00:23:26] Part of just being at the the ugly bug in specific not that I'm trying to you know second one's dig or anything You know pretty cool part about working at the ugly bug and maybe something I just had an experience before that there is always that weird

[00:23:41] Patronizing portion of being a check that works in the fishing industry, you know you're almost loaded upon in some ways You know you don't know you aren't necessarily expected to do all the same work and have all the same knowledge

[00:23:55] And so hey, I'll always be grateful just for being given the opportunity to come work here, you know once again Not to patron anyone but always be grateful for that opportunity

[00:24:06] But I think pretty badass part about working at the bug is I've never felt like I was necessarily treated like a girl

[00:24:11] I think that you know I think that I came in and my expectations of work ethic and knowledge and you know ability to talk to customers and Manage schedules and trips and stuff, you know is the exact same as anyone else I was working with

[00:24:28] And I think that's a little more important in some ways is that Doesn't have to be this huge noble crusade of having women on the water women working in the industry

[00:24:36] It's it's more just about being there and being able to work and working the same way as your male counterparts I think that that's pretty important, you know, not ultimately I mean Obviously I think it's a valuable thing, yeah women in the shop

[00:24:53] But also pretty blunt the fact that like if you can't handle the work that I'll find someone else right, but it's not necessarily woman It's who's the best person I could find to fill the position. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think there's value in it both ways but

[00:25:09] Or value in having a you know cows around but But ultimately there's a scope of work that needs to get hammered out and I've never thought it made me sense to treat me one any different than

[00:25:23] Yeah, it may be to my own fault right at times I'm pretty blunt Can speak pretty openly, but Like it's just getting used to tampons in the bathroom You're slowly you're slowly catching that in there So if you were to give someone looking to break into the industry

[00:25:43] Figure it out try to find a way to make a living at it. What kind of advice would you drop through what

[00:25:50] I mean there's a couple things. I think that there's a lot of roads that lead to Rome when it comes to fly fishing or being in the industry in general

[00:25:59] I mean a especially for people you know, maybe in my position that just didn't grow up around fly fishing industry You know, I didn't have a home shop home river I just didn't have those things If you ever have the opportunity to go to college

[00:26:14] I would take that and I would take that for all its worth I've moved around a little bit and I'll be the first to say college is the easiest

[00:26:23] That's the easiest move for sure you have a built-in friend group you all of a sudden are plopped on a campus where you know You can find hundreds of people that are interested in the same things that you are and

[00:26:35] And if college is an option absolutely I would recommend you know Being realistic about your career options from there on out and for that reason you know finding colleges with concurrent Residencies really focusing on colleges that offer your major

[00:26:52] But once again, that's easier said than done and I think I'll always be grateful for the opportunity of education But I also will be the first to acknowledge the not everyone has that And so from there my next advice would be to look into summer contracts

[00:27:08] If you need to work a work a job or even if you're finishing a high school or you're just looking to do something different I would check out I've always found cool works.com to be credible

[00:27:19] Once again, my brother has as well I've sent a lot of friends there A lot of people younger than me that kind of ask how to get into the outdoor industry in general That's kind of the first thing I point to

[00:27:29] I mean even on there if if school's not for you and that's on on the table You can find yearly contracts on there that will provide housing and food

[00:27:38] And at the very least even if it is an exactly what you want to do you're going to place yourself in the same areas that have the things that you do want to do

[00:27:46] And so I think that that would kind of be my my big first thing is take the leap to be where you need to be And even if you are from a mountain town go try something different

[00:27:57] I think it's easy to get comfortable with your home river and forget that you know there's some other Interacities that come along with other rivers that you may not know and the more well rounded you can be about it the better

[00:28:11] I mean I would definitely recommend that for sure And then outside of that Be annoying you know Do the stalking do the emails do the text messages, you know

[00:28:24] I think that you know people are perceptive and I think people understand kind of passion and drive when they see it And even if you think you're being annoying and that you're asking too much or bothering someone too much

[00:28:37] I mean until they tell you to fuck off. There's really no reason to stop you know And so I think that that'd be a huge part of it is that you know it can be difficult

[00:28:46] I think a lot of fly fishing is so small it really is a community And I think the more you get into it and the more you're surrounded by it The more you realize that everyone is connected and in some way shape or form which can be intimidating

[00:28:59] Coming in as an outsider You feel like you may be beat out by the kid that knows him that knows him that knows her that knows him You know and make some space for yourself if need be I mean I'm pretty sure there is a point in there

[00:29:13] Addie could call the cops on me if she wanted to and you know kind of be relentless in your endeavors and I think the ultimate lesson and the ultimate advice is don't do it if you don't give a shit about it

[00:29:28] Yeah, I think that it's definitely a lifestyle. It's a choice And that's not to say that it's about choice in any way shape or form You know I think there's definitely ways to figure it out and to still lead a very full and happy and you know

[00:29:45] Not live with financial restraints doing it But if you're not sold on it in your heart and soul You know don't do it, but you feel like that's what you want to do

[00:29:56] Patience recognized always just like he said, you know I think that a give a shit is hard to find Yeah, and that means a lot and so You just got to give a shit about it and the more that you do the better off you'll be

[00:30:08] And the more people that you'll meet and you'll be able to network with Then hopefully end up in a position like I have where I work for company I respect fully And once again, I think that that's that's quite a lost art and you can't you can't find

[00:30:22] Love for a job in a call center, you know Sometimes you just gotta put yourself out there and see what happens and it'll work out at some point Cool, but yeah good no to end on all righty Thanks see

[00:30:35] Places people can find you you can find me on Instagram CC underscore, but underscore outside So you can't be up on there, but any questions absolutely Thanks for each out. Yeah. Thank you. See you. Thank you For listening to the ugly bug podcast if you've enjoyed this episode

[00:30:54] Please consider subscribing and leaving a review on Apple podcasts and Spotify If you have questions or feedback reach out to us via email at info at Uglybugpodcast.com or leave a comment on our social networks